.44 special 1871-2 open top

pakm · January 11, 2014, 08:55:43 PM

Does Taylors or Cimarron have 5.5 inch barrels and cylinders in .44-40 for this gun. MY rifle for cowboy shooting is a pedersoli pump in .44-40( it ain't going away, it's too good). I can't fine .44-40 open tops in this caliber caliber. so I'm I using 1871-2's open tops in .44 special. Does any know if a cylinder and barrel swap is doable??? I put a cimarron barrel and cylinder in a bretta stampede in .44-40 and it worked just fine. so many of the parts are interchangeable my two 1871-2's have 7.5 inch barrels,,,, a little slow for cowboy shooting(but they're accurate!)
Dirty MacPill

Coffinmaker · January 11, 2014, 11:23:04 PM

Not that I'm aware of. Uberti didn't chamber the Open Top in 44-40. Currently, most manufacturers produce their .44s with .429 bores. Older guns may have 427/428. Slug your bore to be sure.
For a 44-40 Open Top, you will have to have an Open Top cylinder re-chambered and be very careful of overall cartridge length.

Coffinmaker

FriscoCounty · January 12, 2014, 10:56:00 AM

Order some replacement cylinders in .44 Colt or .44 Special and find a gunsmith willing to chamber ream it to .44-40. That way the original, serialized cylinders will still be .44 Special and you will have a second set in .44-40. There can be a long wait on spare cylinders, so call whoever you order from to find out what has the shortest lead time.

Finding a reamer for .44-40 can be difficult. Springfield Slim and I both did the conversion. Slim's didn't have enough of a neck, so the shells tend to blow out. Mine wound up being very tight, almost useless. There is barely to not enough room for the rims, so the reamer does need to had a slightly outward pressure when reaming. The chamber walls are very thin when done, so be careful to only shoot BP or low pressure smokeless rounds. I wouldn't shoot any factory smokeless loads, even Cowboy loads.

Personally, I have no problem with different calibers for pistol and rifle. In my .44 Special Open Tops, I shoot .44 Russian and .44-40 in my 1860 Henry. No mistaking those rounds.

Coffinmaker · January 13, 2014, 03:17:52 PM

I forgot to mention the problems Frisco County brought up. The 44-40 rim diameter is too large for reliable chambering in an Open Top cylinder. Also, after reaming, the chamber walls are practically paper thin and won't stand much chamber pressure.
After working on CAS guns for 16+ plus years! it's a job I'd have to turn down. Other than personal convenience, there is no real reason to do it. The original Open Top chambering was to take advantage of the .44 Henry Flat and pair up with the Henry and '66.

Coffinmaker

pakm · January 13, 2014, 05:41:03 PM

well, after reading all of your notes you people gave me an idea.l I called Cimarron this morning and asked them if they had replacement barrels for my 1871-2 colts in 4 3/4 in and/or 5.5 ;inch. they did and they did have them in stock. I ordered one of each. (it's a heck of a lot cheaper to buy barrels insteed of the whole pistol) I'll try them out on my next cowboy shoot (not the one coming up/) and i'll see which length I like best. but for accuracy I still like the 7.5 inch barrel. but it's "slow" in the draw and replace back into the holster. I'm sure there will be some fitting but that's ok, I need the file time!!!!!
Pat

Graveyard Jack · January 13, 2014, 06:22:24 PM

Out of curiosity, how much were the extra barrels?

pakm · January 16, 2014, 06:09:34 PM

My cost was about 96.00 each. the only problem was I was told I was getting a 5.5 inch and a 4 3/4 inch and what I got was one 5.5 inch and another 7.5 inch. (and I've got two of them now!!!) they(Cimarron) said they would send me another 5.5 inch barrel if I send the 7.5 inch back. I send it back this morning (Thursday) . I"ve also got a C mason in .44 speical. it was the wrong gun in the right box. I wish I had sent it back to the dealer who sold it to me. I've been filing on the back of the barrel(where it's draging on the front of the cylinder) for almost two weeks now. the spacing is crap! I put some magic marker on the end of the barrel and the face of the cylinder and where it rubs I file.
"O" by the way,,, the new 5.5 inch barrel fit like it was made for my gun. I shot it today and every thing was good except my accuraacy. does anyone shoot these guns with Trail boss??? I tried 5gr.s, 5.5gr.s 6gr.s 6.3(max according to my loading data) and I tried 4.3 just a little while ago. I"m shooting a 205gr. bullet for the rifles RNFN and my point of impact is pretty low at 10 yards. does anyone shoot a heavier bullet with what powder charge?

then the loading gate screw backs out on my new 1871/2. I locked tited it once, but this time I LOCKTITED it. I"m now waiting the 24 hours for it to dry and then try the gun.
I"m shooting toumbled lubed bullets that mike about .430 to .431. I miked the barrel on the gun and it was about .430.
Dirty MacPill

Graveyard Jack · January 16, 2014, 10:23:28 PM

I settled on a 240gr SWC over 4.0gr Titegroup in my .44Colt Open Top and it shoots right to point of aim.

FriscoCounty · January 17, 2014, 11:10:16 AM

Beautiful Open Top.

pakm · January 17, 2014, 01:46:30 PM

CraigC,, that is one beautiful revolver, i"M almost jealous, but I've put some work into my 1871'2's and I"ll have to shoot them like they are. but, who did the work? and/or how much did it cost???
Dirty MacPIll

Graveyard Jack · January 18, 2014, 10:49:48 AM

Thanks! BarS did the TruIvory grips, Michael Gouse did the engraving and polishing (~$1000). Doug Turnbull finished it (~$500) in carbona blue with fire blued screws and case colored hammer/trigger. It's a real gem of a sixgun!

pakm · January 18, 2014, 03:48:54 PM

it's beautiful but money wise it's a little out of my range.
Dirty MacPill

Coffinmaker · January 18, 2014, 08:19:28 PM

PAKM,
STOP filing on the back of that barrel. Before you do ANYTHING else, take the barrel and cylinder off the gun, re-install the barrel without the cylinder in the gun with the barrel lug at 3 o'clock and twist it down to the frame, if the barrel lug I'd behind the front of the frame (where the pins are) you have bad barrel to arbor fit that Must be corrected. With bad barrel/arbor fit, the barrel to cylinder gap, head space and end shake will be different EVERY time you R&R the barrel.
If you can't twist the barrel down easily, clean up the end of the arbor with some 400 grit wet/dry.

Coffinmaker

Flint · January 19, 2014, 07:06:45 PM

What I found, as I have barrels and cylinders in 38, 44 and 45 Schofiels, is the depth of the bolt notch is more shallow as the caliber goes up, so a 44 Russian (preferably) rechambered to 44-40 may be too thin under the locking notch. The 45 Schofield case diameter (.480) is very close to the 44-40 (.471), and the cylinder walls are adequate for that, it is the locking notch that might be a problem, though the case does taper to .457 at the shoulder.

The 44 Russian/Special/Magnum case diameter is .457. The difference in wall thickness at the cylinder would be .007, the radius difference of the 44 R/S/M and the 44-40.

I say Russian preferably because the 44 Special, (1.10 above the rim) or 44 Colt, (1.04 above the rim) chamber will leave a ring in the rechambered cylinder due to the location of the 44-40 shoulder, about .84 or a bit more above the rim, a 44 Russian chamber much less, about .90.. The ring because the 44-40 has much thinner brass at the neck, so the loaded neck diameter .444 is less than the 44 Special at .457..

pakm · January 19, 2014, 09:22:47 PM

ok, Coffinmaker: I"m not understanding your comment::: please clear it up, I think you might have some good advice but I"m not understanding it.

Coffinmaker · January 19, 2014, 09:43:04 PM

PAKM,
Uberti open top design guns, whether BP, Conversion, or cartridge almost universally have terrible Barrel to Arbor fit. The arbor is the big pin the cylinder rotates on, and has a slot for the wedge. Depending on point of view, Uberti either makes the Arbor too short, or the hole in the Barrel too deep. The Arbor is suppose to seat solidly in the bottom of the hole in the barrel, when the bottom of the barrel is tight against the frame. If the hole is too deep, the arbor will not seat solidly and every time you put the wedge in, the barrel will creep on the arbor and tighten on the cylinder face until it drags. NOT a good thing. Normally when there is NO barrel/cylinder gap the Barrel to Arbor FIT is the culprit, not the breach face of the barrel.
The ABSOLUTE first thing to do with an open top designed gun, when it comes out of the box is to check and correct the Barrel to Arbor fit. Pietta built guns are usually OK and Uberti built gins are usually terrible.

Coffinmaker

PS: there is some excellent information on open top set up over on the Open Range

pakm · January 22, 2014, 03:52:24 PM

ok, coffin maker I under stand now, thank you.

pakm · January 25, 2014, 09:21:36 PM

well, I worked on my "new" open top 1871 for two days filing, sanding, etc. ofcourse it was 30 degreesa out side and I didn't have much to do any way. but to day I got a chance to shoot the little raskel. I put four shot's inside of a 1 inch square at about 10 yards. I think I have a keeper now. but I also fired it about as quick as I could for the cowboy shoots. it ran fine. (it's in .44 speical.) I'm loading 6.4 gr's of Trail Boss over a 205 gr. bullet. Now I"m a happy camper! but what I really want is a 1860 open top(black powder) and put an Long colt cylinder in it. It might be coming up in the near future!. I also have an 1873 army in .38-40 it a sweetheart and very accurate also. what to do, so many guns so few cowboy shoots.