Casting for C&B

Wildcat Will · January 01, 2014, 09:29:12 AM

I've been casting my boolets for some time for my 45LCs but have started getting into shooting 1858 Army C&B pistols. Rather than buying the lead balls I was thinking of casting them. Here is the question, can I use the same 25:1 lead for them as I do for my RVs and Marlin? Your thoughts will be greatly appreciated.

hellgate · January 01, 2014, 10:40:38 AM

Yes,
That is soft enough. Best is to use pure dead soft lead so you can save your tin for the suppository (cartridge) shooters. Hardcast bullets stress the loading ram and in Colt C&Bs the arbor. I've used 1:20 (tin:lead) without problems but anything harder I would shy away from like wheelweights. I've cast many thousands of RBs with the LEE double cavity mold (also their 200gr conical mold). For fast production you could get a 6 cavity .454 RB gang mold from biglube.com and crank them out at 3X the speed.

Wildcat Will · January 01, 2014, 02:24:41 PM

Thanks Hellgate. I'll look into the 6 cavity mold.

Blair · January 01, 2014, 04:07:24 PM

Try looking into the CCI or Hornady ball bearing made round ball bullets. .451, 454 or .457 dia. for revolvers.
Just a thought on my part and may save you from investing in a mould.
My best,
Blair

Montana Slim · January 02, 2014, 04:28:24 PM

Quote from: Wildcat Will on January 01, 2014, 09:29:12 AM
I've been casting my boolets for some time for my 45LCs but have started getting into shooting 1858 Army C&B pistols. Rather than buying the lead balls I was thinking of casting them. Here is the question, can I use the same 25:1 lead for them as I do for my RVs and Marlin? Your thoughts will be greatly appreciated.

No.....you'll need pure lead for a harmonious result.
Stick to pure lead projectiles for you C&B pistols and they will thank-you for it.

You don't mention the manufacturer of your "1858", better described as a NM Remington Army, but Uberti chambers often measure around .452, while Pietta often measure around .450. A .454 pure-lead ball will work in either (and, most of the popular non-Ruger C&B revolvers).....a .451 ball may work ok in a Pietta, but likely not in a Uberti.

With the cost of commercial RBs running about $12 per hundred, I'll keep casting mine....30,000 (or so) to date with a 2x Lee mold.
A double-cavity mold and pot from Lee cost well under a hundred bucks and payback (not including your time) will be brief - asuming you enjoy loading, cleaning and casting as much as shooting those C&B (all are among my favorite hobbies). I leave the casting equipment out on my bench for a week or so each year, casting a few hundred per session until I have a few thousand boxed up.
BTW, I have a 20 pound pot for alloyed lead and a 10 pound pot for pure lead...just makes it simpler for me.

Regards,
Slim

Wildcat Will · January 02, 2014, 05:45:25 PM

Ok I misspoke again. They are 1860 Army open top by Pietta. Is it better to stay with pure lead because of the stress on the loading lever or is there some other reason?

hellgate · January 02, 2014, 06:25:47 PM

The Colt open tops I have had rarely accept the LEE CONICAL 200gr bullet. My one ASM Hartford Model will with a little jiggling but none of the Piettas. Never owned an Uberti 1860 so I don't know about them. All the Remimgtons I have had would take the conicals without trouble. Original Colt's revolvers had a lot more metal removed from under the barrel in order to accept the military conical bullets of the day but not the Italian repros. So, for now I'd say stick to the round ball.

Wildcat: you're a little ahead of me as I have only cast about 25,000 RB from my DC Lee mold.

john boy · January 04, 2014, 08:32:58 PM

QuoteHere is the question, can I use the same 25:1 lead for them as I do for my RVs and Marlin? Your thoughts will be greatly appreciated.

Will, use pure lead!
Grade C sheet lead (98.8% Pb) at the recyclers for 65 cents to a buck a pound is a whole lot cheaper than adding Sn at $15.00 a pound! Save that tin for your BPCR reloads

Wildcat Will · January 05, 2014, 05:48:13 AM

John Boy where do you get your lead? I've been getting mine through Roto Metals out of California.

Navy Six · February 06, 2014, 03:37:24 AM

Will, since you've been casting for some time you know what to expect from the whole process. I recently got back into extensive cap & ball use and since I already cast for so many other calibers in my cartridge guns, I thought I would just buy the round ball from Speer or Hornady. Was I surprised that almost none were available. So I tried to purchase round ball moulds and they weren't available either! I finally tracked down moulds after months of waiting.
I started casting in the first place because I couldn't buy what I needed/wanted and I didn't like being at some company's mercy for my supplies. I see nothing has changed!!

rifle · February 06, 2014, 10:37:00 AM

One reason to use pure lead is the function of the plunger on the loading lever. It's end that pushes the balls in the chamber is shaped in a way that spreads the lead against the chamber walls for a safe well sealed loading. One big reason the plunger has the concave end on it. Using pure lead helps with the seal. I thunk that S. Colt recommended pure lead balls in his loading instructions that came with the guns.
That is one of the reasons the end of the loading levers plunger is concave to fit the ball but.......the concave is a little smaller than the balls so the balls are shaped to the concave and in the process the outside edges of the balls are pressed into the chamber walls for the seal.

Some Remingtons don't have a very good shape to the loading levers plunger and don't do a top of the line shaping and sealing the balls in the chambers.

That said I'd not argue with an Hombre if he likes lead balls a little harder than pure lead. Sometimes a ball a little harder than pure lead gives better accuracy. As long as the plunger can shape the ball in the chamber to seal well whatever type alloy harder than pure lead can work.
Thing is.....the harder you lever the balls in the chambers the more compression to the powder. One may like the compression that ups the pressures for more velosity or one may not like the compression. Depends on what kind of accuracy there is to one way or the other.

Using loose balls in the cap&baller revolvers can be done but, in my humble opinion, the balls need to be close to .010 inch bigger than the chambers to seal the best and give the tightest fit for a little back pressure to let the powder burn more effectively. Sorta like a firm crimp to a cartridge case.

If the chambers are .449 like some Piettas use the .457 commercial balls since they are the biggest. Actually the .457's work in about all the cap&ballers well.......using pure lead.

Anywhooo...I feel using a ball only a couple of .001's inch bigger than the chambers can let the balls move forward with recoil and hang the gun up. The use of lube pills/grease cookies on the powder under the balls works real well for fouling control but makes the chambers slippery and aggravates the balls slipping forward with recoil especially with loose balls.