1873 Winchester in .44-40?

[Cannon Jockey]

Very nice.  Looks like you did well!

Cheers

[stuck_in_73]

Very nice.  Looks like you did well!

Cheers

Thanks. I'm hoping I'll be pleased. Maybe it'll be in next week. I'll post more picks of it once I get it. Thanks everyone for all the info!

[Cannon Jockey]

Since this is the review section, here is another thing that I thought I would share about the Miroku 1873's and this would pertain to any of them.

Miroku added an additional safety system that is not on either a Uberti or an original.   However, it is unobtrusive and basically self-working.    The long metal bolt that cocks the hammer when one works the lever is now called the firing pin extension.  On an original there is no such part because it and the firing pin were a single piece of machined metal that threads through the breechblock.

Possibly for production efficiencies, Uberti chose to make this into two separate pieces, which simply mate inside the breechblock.  The rear section (the part that you see) is now called the firing pin extension.    Miroku followed this same method, but redesigned the extension to also house a hammer block safety.  Basically what they have done is to take a single part from the original Winchester and turned it into an assembly comprised of 10 parts---now that's progress


Below a shot of the Miroku extension.  It is now hollow with an internal pin under pressure from a small coil spring.  The black button at the very rear tip of the extension is the contact end of that internal pin.  The other end of the internal coil spring is attached to a cam lever, the top of which you will see protruding from a machined slot running length-wise on the extension.   All this is held in place with two punch pins.

Peeking out from under the rear of the dust cover, is the base of a lug which the cam lever interacts with inside the receiver.


The whole purpose of this affair is to prevent an accidental discharge if the hammer is bumped while being in the down position
with a round in the chamber.     The rifles still have the normal half cock position which has sufficed as a safety system for at least 140 years, but of course in today's litigious society, companies now have to protect people from their own negligence.    

Thank goodness, they didn't go the route that they did with their 1886, 1892, 1894, and 1895, which replaced the half cock with a rebounding hammer and an upper tang safety switch.   It's a shame that companies now seem compelled to fix things that weren't broken in the first place.

As I mentioned, the system on the new 73's is not as obtrusive, but I have already encountered a problem with it in my short rifle.   It was probably just a freak accident, but I can see it happening to others if they are not aware of the possibility.  

After a range trip this past summer with the short rifle, I had just finished cleaning the bore, and was giving the entire rifle a final wipe down.   The lever was down, so the extension was fully extended to the rear.   That's when my cleaning rag caught the little tab protruding from the slot on the extension and levered it up to a vertical position.  This dislodged the internal coil spring from its track and left the cam lever sticking up at an angle.   I could see the little spring inside doubled up, but there was no way to reposition it through the narrow slot.    Consequently, I could not close the action.

A smarter and more sensible person would have probably sent the rifle to the Winchester service center, but having disassembled and done minor gunsmithing on my 73's numerous times over the years, I decided to see if I could correct the issue on my own.

The extension had to be removed and mounted in a vice to drive out the rear retaining pin with a punch.  Then using an illuminated magnifier and tweezers, the coil spring was remounted inside the shaft and the whole thing reassembled.     It took the better part of an evening to figure out and correct.  It has functioned normally since then, and of course I have since taken care to avoid duplicating what caused the issue in the first place.

Fortunately, over the week end, I found a solution to prevent this from ever happening again.   Pioneer Gunworks, who makes short stroke kits for Uberti's and the new Miroku's, also makes a replacement drop in firing pin extension that is a simple solid piece of metal.  This effectively eliminates the new safety block system and restores the gun to a more historically authentic configuration.  

I placed an order this week for two--one for each of my rifles at $40 a pop.

Cheers

[stuck_in_73]

Thanks for that info. I may look into that when my Miroku shows up.

[The Pathfinder]

"Basically what they have done is to take a single part from the original Winchester and turned it into an assembly comprised of 10 parts---now that's progress."

And that's why my newest Winchester '73 was made in 1882, and my newest clone was made in 1995. They just can't help but tinker with perfection.

[Cliff Fendley]

The factory firing pin extension on the Miroku is a mess and looks even worse.

[Cannon Jockey]

The factory firing pin extension on the Miroku is a mess and looks even worse.

Yes, but the world is so much a safer place now---well, at least maybe from a few dimwits and the lawyers who are willing to represent them in frivolous lawsuits

Cheers

[stuck_in_73]

Fortunately, over the week end, I found a solution to prevent this from ever happening again.   Pioneer Gunworks, who makes short stroke kits for Uberti's and the new Miroku's, also makes a replacement drop in firing pin extension that is a simple solid piece of metal.  This effectively eliminates the new safety block system and restores the gun to a more historically authentic configuration.  

I placed an order this week for two--one for each of my rifles at $40 a pop.

Cannon,
After you install you new bolt can you review how difficult it was to install one? I may do this with mine if the new 10 piece bolt/firing pin is a nuisance. Also, do you think you'll ever use the pioneer gun works short stroke kits? How are the actions on the Miroku's? Thanks

[Cannon Jockey]

Cannon,
After you install you new bolt can you review how difficult it was to install one? I may do this with mine if the new 10 piece bolt/firing pin is a nuisance. Also, do you think you'll ever use the pioneer gun works short stroke kits? How are the actions on the Miroku's? Thanks

If I have time, I will try to photograph the steps.  It's not hard, but unless one has disassembled an 1873 before, I would not recommend it without some guidance.   I was one of those adventurous kids who tried to disassemble just about anything mechanical I came in contact with, so I tackled an 1873 when I was 13.    It only took me 2 or 3 tries to get it reassembled without having extra parts left over.

The action on the Miroku's are quite smooth out of the box--at least much smother than any Uberti I have ever handled.   The springs are also light compared to the ham fisted heavy stuff that Uberti uses.   With the addition of a lever stroke that's about 15 degrees less that either a Uberti or an original, I presently don't see the need for any action work.  Of course a serious and well seasoned CAS competitor may have a totally different outlook on this.

As I understand it, those short stroke kits that Pioneer sells are not exactly drop in kits, but usually require fitting and adjustment.

The extension on the other hand is supposed to be just a simple swap out.

Cheers

[stuck_in_73]

If I have time, I will try to photograph the steps.  It's not hard, but unless one has disassembled an 1873 before, I would not recommend it without some guidance.   I was one of those adventurous kids who tried to disassemble just about anything mechanical I came in contact with, so I tackled an 1873 when I was 13.    It only took me 2 or 3 tries to get it reassembled without having extra parts left over.

The action on the Miroku's are quite smooth out of the box--at least much smother than any Uberti I have ever handled.   The springs are also light compared to the ham fisted heavy stuff that Uberti uses.   With the addition of a lever stroke that's about 15 degrees less that either a Uberti or an original, I presently don't see the need for any action work.  Of course a serious and well seasoned CAS competitor may have a totally different outlook on this.

As I understand it, those short stroke kits that Pioneer sells are not exactly drop in kits, but usually require fitting and adjustment.

The extension on the other hand is supposed to be just a simple swap out.

Cheers

Yeah no biggie. Don't go out of your way. I don't mean to bug you about it. I've had my Uberti apart several times so I'm sure I can handle it. I appreciate it!

Thanks

[Cannon Jockey]

The replacement firing pin extensions arrived in the mail Saturday, but I had a function to attend, so I didn't get around to putting them in until today.

Here's the stock pin on left and the Pioneer Gunworks replacement on the right


One does not have to do a full breakdown to swap out the extension.    You only have to remove the side plates and the toggle links.

One tip, if your links still have tight tolerances, I have found that they come out and go back in easiest when fully retracted, i.e., with the lever fully extended.  The hammer being fully cocked in the process takes most of the tension out too.


Next there is a small loose fit retaining pin in the breech block to push out, which releases the extension from the block. This is different from a Uberti, since their extension is held in by a key that is released by pushing out the large pivot pin.


Now all one has to do is fully depress the hammer back far as it will go and there is just enough wiggle room for the extension to slide over it and fully out of the receiver.  

Reverse this process with the new extension.  The firing pin is under spring tension, so when you butt the extension up against it in the breech block, you will have to push a bit to make sure the retention pin enters the forward notch in the extension
 

Reassemble and done.  Including the cam lever, the internal pin, and spring plus two retaining pins--a total of five parts have been eliminated.



The only thing left from the safety system is a lug and it's retaining screw built in to the top of the receiver.  It can only be seen when the dust cover is in the forward position.     It's fairly unobtrusive and besides--removing it would leave a hole in the top of the receiver for dust and debris to enter.

I tested a couple of primed, but unloaded cartridges and got a nice even primer strike and ignition, so everything appears ready to go.


Cheers

Note:  I've been informed that Uberti's made prior to 2008 did not use the key and pivot pin to lock in the firing pin extension, but used the same smaller pin retainer like the Miroku does.   I only have one Italian 1873 older than 2008 and have never had occasion to have to disassembly it that far.   Anyway, this is just to clear up that point if one finds their selves needing to remove a Uberti firing pin extension from the breech block. 

[stuck_in_73]

Great info. Thank you for sharing Robert!

[TUCO-the-ratt]

Cannon Joceky you made an excellent point that...

"In the shot below, you can spot the more tapered barrel on the Miroku by the larger space between the barrel and the magazine tube."

These rifles are butt ugly at a glance in my opinion. The large gap under the barrel was the first thing I noticed about the one I saw in the store.

[Cannon Jockey]

Cannon Joceky you made an excellent point that...

"In the shot below, you can spot the more tapered barrel on the Miroku by the larger space between the barrel and the magazine tube."

These rifles are butt ugly at a glance in my opinion. The large gap under the barrel was the first thing I noticed about the one I saw in the store.

I would disagree about with calling the rifle butt ugly.  It is a beautiful rifle as it is.  However, it is simply not an authentic copy
of an original.    I don't demand that they make it so close that you can't tell the copy from an original for obvious reasons.

I also don't mind them finding ways to reduced the weight if it is not patently obvious.  Unfortunately for me the extreme barrel taper is patently obvious.    The only analogy I can come up with is that it is kind of like I purchased an expensive painted copy of the Mona Lisa---only to realize that the artist changed her hair color.  It might not look bad, it just doesn't look right.

By the way, I just noticed that Winchester has added a new model 1873 on their web site.  It is another sporting rifle with a 24 inch octagon barrel.  It now appears to be a regular catalog item but with this model the stock has the pistol grip design, which requires a curved finger lever.   I also noticed that the weight is listed at 8 lbs. rather than 7.5 like the one I have.  

I am wondering if this means they are correcting the barrel situation for the new model since a pistol grip stock simply could not account for an extra half pound.

I called the Winchester service desk to find out how to register my disappointment with the rifle.   The lady I talked to was nice and gave me an email address that would come to her.    She said to list my issue and she would forward it on to the proper people.  It's probably a waste of time, but I'm still going to follow through with it.

Cheers

[stuck_in_73]

By the way, I just noticed that Winchester has added a new model 1873 on their web site.  It is another sporting rifle with a 24 inch octagon barrel.  It now appears to be a regular catalog item but with this model the stock has the pistol grip design, which requires a curved finger lever.   I also noticed that the weight is listed at 8 lbs. rather than 7.5 like the one I have.  

The new catalog rifle they added with the pistol grip is provided below. I'm not a fan of the curved lever on a 73. I don't mind the Uberti 1873 pistol grip with the straight lever but I seem I can't get passed the look of Winchester's new 73 with the pistol grip curved lever. Just my 2 cents.

Jeff

[Cannon Jockey]

Actually the Uberti special sporting rifle has both a curved finger lever and lower tang.  The Uberti is simply not as pronounced as the Miroku in the picture.

However, neither are the originals pictured in my R.L. Wilson book,  my original & reproduction catalogs, nor any of  the photos I have seen.   If this is true then the new offering from Miroku once again has been altered for no apparent reason.

I did send a rather lengthy email to the Winchester/Browning office explaining my issue with the new rifle.  It may not help, but at least I got it off my chest.


Cheers

[cpt dan blodgett]

Being totally clueless, I rather like my new japchester 44-40

[chuckerbird]

+1 to what capt. Dan said.

[JeffinTD]

I've got one of there in 357 with the octogon barrel and case hardened reciever.

Nice wood, nice fit and finish, and runs smoothly. I am aware of the tapered barrel and firing pin changes, and I guess I have no problems with them. I realized it isn't intended as a historically accurate reproduction, though I'm glad it didn't get a tang safety.

So far I haven't found a cast bullet load that produces decent accuracy, but am still experimenting.  


Anyway, I have a question for you guys:  I'd like to replace the semi-buckhorn rear with a flip up, preferably adjustable flat top sight, and add a tang peep sight. Suggestions?

[stuck_in_73]

I added a marbles improved tang base with a standard height post to my rifle. I suggest to remove the buckhorn sights and a a blank. I installed a williams blank. Work out well. If you add a tang sight the buckhorn will be in your view of the tang so I'd remove it. I actually tried to add a marbles sporting flip up/down rear buckhorn sight to go with my tang sight to be able to toggle between the two. Bad idea. The sporting flip up buckhorn didn't want to flip up without scraping off the blued finish on my barrel. Luckily I had a playing card between my barrel and adjustable sight so it didn't cause any damage. Let's see you gun. Post some pics. Would like to see it! Hope that helps ya.

Jeff