1873 Winchester in .44-40?

[Nimble Fingers]

Been a while since I have been on and if I haven't seen an article please forgive.  I was under the impression that we were going to see a .44-40 version from Winchester /Miroki (sp?) around this time.  Has anyone heard if it is coming yet or is it a figment of my fervent imagination?

Thanks.

Nimble Fingers
SE FL

[hatman]

Yes, they're out there.
I've seen several on gun broker.
I have the 1873 Miroku and 2 Browning/Miroku 86's.  Awesome quality and beautiful.
The 92 Miroku 44-40 is on my short-list of 'wanna gits'.

[JohnsonBarr]

The November 2013 issue of the American Rifleman reviewed the new 2013 Miroku made Winchester 1873. The article appears on page 64 and indicates that for now the short rifle (20" round barrel with crescent butt plate) will only be available in .357/.38 Special chambering. Possibly the earlier production in 2009 produced .44-40 rifles.

[hatman]

Been a while since I have been on and if I haven't seen an article please forgive.  I was under the impression that we were going to see a .44-40 version from Winchester /Miroki (sp?) around this time.  Has anyone heard if it is coming yet or is it a figment of my fervent imagination?

Thanks.

Nimble Fingers
SE FL

Oops.  My apologies.  JohnsonBarr is correct and I was WRONG.
I was thinking of the 92.

[Nimble Fingers]

Yes I have the John Wayne Commemorative in .44-40 that I had customized to also shoot .344 special.  But I was referring to the 1873 that is currently out in .357/.38, with the rumor that just about now they were going to have a run in .44-40.  I am also wanting an 1886 but if the3 1873 came out then I would sell my Cimmarron 1873 in .44 special and buy that one instead, rather have the Winchester name on the barrel.  If anyone has news let us know?  Thanks again.

[Cliff Fendley]

Yes I have the John Wayne Commemorative in .44-40 that I had customized to also shoot .344 special.  But I was referring to the 1873 that is currently out in .357/.38, with the rumor that just about now they were going to have a run in .44-40.  I am also wanting an 1886 but if the3 1873 came out then I would sell my Cimmarron 1873 in .44 special and buy that one instead, rather have the Winchester name on the barrel.  If anyone has news let us know?  Thanks again.

Are you into re enactment or something that the name on the barrel matters? If so I would think more importantly would be the fact that those new Miroku made 73's are not an accurate replica in that the lever throw is short stroked.

Your going to need to invest in a gun nearly 100 years old for that name Winchester on the gun to really mean anything, none are exact but Cimarron offers a more accurate replica of those.

[Blackpowder Burn]

Nimble Fingers,

Yes, Winchester plans to sell the 1873 in 44-40.  According to their representative at the NRA convention last May, they were to be out last October.  However, I've seen a report that they were delayed until early 2014.

The nice thing is that they've already been tuned and have a modest short stroke (lever opening is just short of 90 degrees), and they sell for slightly less than a stock Uberti.  Thus, you don't have to spend additional money to have it tuned.

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Howdy
I am looking forward to handling the new 73 . Would love to have one with checkered stocks and a pistol grip 24 inch half octagon barrel . This could be the Ultimate Vintage Hunting Rifle . 

[Rye Miles]

http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?family=027C&mid=534200

[cpt dan blodgett]

Yes it is a 10 month old dead thread but...

I just got my Miroku Winchester 73 in 44-40 20 inch round barrel short rifle, actually a factory refurb, looks like a brand new shiny rifle to me.  Not sure what they fixed and the price  was under a grand (not very much under).

Levers easily.  I will need to practice to make sure I fully close the lever and thus disengage the lever safety/trigger block.

Brass and dies in bound from TOTW, .428 bullets enroute from Cowboy Bullets,  The groove diameter if spec should be .4285 the soft desperado bullets should bump up to seal bore with no problem.

Wood to metal fit pretty nice with the wood being slightly proud.

My first 73 win, the bolt seems pretty wimpy compared to 92s etc.  The barrel is pretty heavy at the muzzle seems to be almost twice as much metal around the hole than is on my round barreled rossi 92 carbine.

The lever safety / Trigger block will take some getting used to.

[Cannon Jockey]

Hi all,  this is only my second post, but I have two of the Miroku made 1873's.  I got one of the short rifles in .357 mag early in the year, but in December I snagged one of the 24 inch octagon barreled models in 44-40.    They were announced as a Shot Show
special back in January.    The information posted on the Winchester site said they were only going produce 250 each of this model in 44-40 and .357 mag.  

I had been watching Gunbroker.com all year, but finally gave up.  Then I happened to log on back in December and saw several for sale.   Anyway, I bid on one and got it below MSRP.  It arrived at my FFL on Christmas Eve.

Here's a shot of it.   Since these rifles come with the tang drilled and tapped, I was able to mount a Marble's sight right away.


Here's a shot of the rifles along with a few Winchester marked collectables.  


I wasn't crazy about the wood on the short rifle.
The butt stock has little tiger strip to it, but it doesn't match the forearm which is not a great piece of wood.

However, the wood on the sporting rifle is absolutely gorgeous.  It dark with lots of figure and matched up perfectly

Cheers

P.S.   I haven fired the new rifle yet, but I will work up a more in depth review when I get the time.

[wildman1]

They also have them in RB 20", 44/40. wM1

[Cannon Jockey]

They also have them in RB 20", 44/40. wM1

Correct, I should have mentioned that the short rifles (both the blued frame and the case color frame) were produced in 3 calibers---.357 mag, 44-40, and 45 Colt..     Miroku produces all of these in limited production runs during the year ranging from a low of 250 to a high of several thousand.   Consequently, there is rarely a selection of all three caliber across all the models available at any one time.  This year, I have seen more of the .357 mag listed for sale than any other caliber, which would seem to indicate that they ran more of this caliber than the others.

The serial numbers for all of these runs are not sequential regardless of configuration like they were back in the days of the original Winchester factory,  but start fresh with number 00001 for each run.   They manage this by including a two letter suffix plus 3 more alphanumeric characters to code the model.   These last 5 characters change with each run.

Twenty or forty years down the road it will be hard to date a Miroku unless they release a chart with all the alphanumeric codes.
Presently one can call the service desk at Winchester/Browning in Utah and they will give on a production date for any Miroku serial number.

Cheers

[wildman1]

Barleycorn Outfitters usually has them in stock. wM1

[dusty texian]

Hello CJ. Your 1873 Model rifles are very nice looking . Thanks for taking the time to photograph them . Look forward to a shooting report. ,,,,,DT

[stuck_in_73]

Cannon are they just making 250 of just the 3 different calibers in case colored recirvers 24"? I want to get a 24" octagon grade II/III .357 case colored Miroku. Will that be hard to find?

[Cannon Jockey]

Cannon are they just making 250 of just the 3 different calibers in case colored recirvers 24"? I want to get a 24" octagon grade II/III .357 case colored Miroku. Will that be hard to find?

According to the Winchester website they were only to produce 250 each of two calibers:   .357 mag and 44-40 in the 24 inch octagon barrel model.   This was announced as a Shot Show special at the 2014 Shot Show.    These are special runs
offered only to those dealers who attend the industry show each January.   This years show starts next week.

I had heard that the entire run got reserved by the various attending dealers before the 3 day show was up.  Miroku must have waited until they had run all of their catalog models before they tooled up for this run since the sporting rifles just started showing up in November.

Once again, since these are not catalog models for 2014, they have a finite supply and when they are gone they are gone.   However, if they feel the market is still there Winchester could have Miroku run them again or even add them to the 2015 catalog.   There is no guarantee.

Before the holidays, there were at least 8 or 10 for sale almost continuously on Gunbroker.com--mostly .357 mag. and maybe one or two in 44-40.  I just looked and there are only 5 listed--all .357 mag.     I don't know why the 44-40's seem to be in short supply--maybe a bigger demand by the collector types who want a historical chambering.

The bottom line to your question is yes--there are still .357 mags available, but If they in fact only ran 250 of these for the entire world market as their web site states, they won't last forever.

MSRP for the octagon barrel model is a whopping $1740.  Of course street prices are lower.  I'm seeing $1550 as a reserve with
$1650 as a buy it now price.    The prices were lower before the holidays.  I snagged my 44-40 for $1500 even with $30 shipping.

There are plenty of the short rifles listed---both blued and color case---mostly .357mag also.   Some of those are priced pretty close to a comparable Uberti.    MSRP for the all blued model was $1300 and the color case short rifle was $1580, but nobody is asking that kind of money now.

Lastly, be advised that if you are a purist, the Miroku sporting rifle is a less accurate copy of an original than a Uberti is--with the one exception of the wood.    My new 24 inch octagon barreled Miroku is a full 1/2 pound lighter than either a comparable original or a Uberti.    They managed this weight reduction two ways.   One is with internal changes and thus mostly invisible.    By making minor geometric changes to internal components such as rounding off the square corners of the toggle links they were able to cut weight without reducing strength or functionality.  

However, they made another change that I spotted the moment I removed the rifle from the box.  It's the octagon barrel.   it's dimensions are less than either a Uberti or an original.  Not in length, but in diameter.   Starting at the receiver, the Miroku is 5% narrower between the flats tapering to 10% narrower at the muzzle.    Both the Uberti and an original with a 24 inch octagon barrel are almost exactly .75 or 3/4 ths. of an inch between the flats at the muzzle while the Miroku is only .67 or 11/16ths of an inch.

Many would not notice this unless you hold the Miroku up next to the Uberti, but as I said, I spotted it immediately.

In the shot below, you can spot the more tapered barrel on the Miroku by the larger space between the barrel and the magazine tube.

Obviously the more pronounced taper requires a longer magazine hanger to keep it aligned with the bore---plus a slightly taller front site.    In case you are wondering why it's hard to see the front sight on grandpa's rifle--at some point either by choice or necessity, he replaced the original blade with a hand carved piece of hog tusk ivory.   It's a bit worn down now, but with the rear sight on the lowest notch of the elevator I can still hit what I aim at with it.  I'll probably never change it out because it's another bit of family history.  

I have no idea how important this barrel taper thing will be to people.  I can appreciate them reducing the overall weight of the gun, but only if they made it less obvious--just keeping it at 5% for the entire length would have been better since there is already a slight taper to an original, but tapering it to 10% at the muzzle makes it obvious.

For that much money, I want a more accurate copy--at least externally.  I have finally decided that I was being too OCD about it
and just to let it go.   Besides, the only way one could correct it would be to send it off to some place like Turnbull and pay a small fortune to have it re-barreled.       Still, I thought it worth mentioning.  

Cheers

[stuck_in_73]

Cool Cannon. Thanks so much for added info. Never heard that mentioned before about the Miroku rifles. After this post I am clicking the "buy it now" button on gun broker. I'll post pics after I buy it. I'm going with the .357/38. I already have a Uberti .45 colt 20" but want something with Winchester on the barrel.  It would be my plinking gun. I'll add a Marbles sight immediately as the tang is tapped. I'm pretty excited. Im a lever action addict. Love them. My Marlin 336ss is my deer gun and my Uberti and this Winchester I'm buying will be my historic guns. To take out of the case to look at or take out and shoot. Plus I have a 3 year old son that when he hits his teens I'd like to pass one of these gems into his hands.

Thanks again!

Jeff

[Abilene]

Cannon Jockey, that is the first I've heard of the smaller dimensions and tapering of the octagon barrel.  Yes, it is fairly obvious when looking at the angle you showed.  As to whether that will matter to potential buyers...if they don't mind the obvious differences in markings on the barrel and tang from the originals and Ubertis, then they probably won't mind the barrel taper!

As to whether those particular models are ended after the runs of 250, regardless of what they said before, it's hard to imagine them turning down sales if the first models sold well.  But at any rate, with Shot Show coming up next week, I'm sure folks will be questioning them about "all things '73"   and we'll be getting updates on what's coming.  Two years ago, when they first showed their new '73, I was able to go by their booth and take a look.  But last year I never had a chance to leave our booth and go over there.  This year, who knows?

[stuck_in_73]

Here is my new Winchester 1873 rifle in 357/38. I'm excited to get it in and add to the gun case next to my Uberti 1873. I like the tiger striped wood it has going. Out of all the new Winchesters on GB I thought this rifle had the best looking grade II/III wood.