Question on an ol 58 brasser.

[Gus Walker]

   Hey all you Remmie fans and knowledgeable grayberds. I am re working an ol kit 58 44 cal Richland arms for a friend. My questions are ...... first does anyone know who made the 58 brasser for Richland Arms, there are no makers marks or name on this reevolver other than Richland arms and Blackpowder only. Also the frame is smaller than Uberti or pietta. I would like to fit an extra bolt stop for the gun but heres the delima, neither uberti or pietta bolt stop comes close to fitting by the length from the screw hole to the part of the bolt that goes through the window of the watertable. I called Dixie gun works Vti and even Deer Creek. all there bolts are the same. Now the new trigger and hand I got from Dixie were almost a drop in fit. Any suggestions?
   This is nicest handling Remmi ive ever seen .
                                                                Thanks
                                                              Ol Gus

[hellgate]

If it is a smaller frame then it may be a Euroarms/Armi San Pualo(?). Look under tge rammer fro the overlapping initials DGG. S&S (or SS) firearms may have parts or know where to get them. They are very nice handling and lightest weight of all the Remingtons. I did see a comemmorative Pietta "Chief of Police" (cop retirement gift gun)  that was a smaller frame made for 1983.

[Gus Walker]

    Wow i always said i'd never own a brass frame.......well now i got two... the asp/richland and Santa brought me an old pietta 58. I knew the asp was lighter but until you handle both you cant appreciate how much better the handling and overall looks of the asp are. It points as naturally as my 60 army or my 51 navy. The pietta points like a 2x4...... Oh and I got the timing spot on by replacing the cam on the hammer with on off an old 60 hammer that had decided it didnt like its sear and spit it out. Had to enlarge the hole for the cam slightly but worked like a charm.

[hellgate]

All of the brasser Colt's I have had or handled have started out with very smooth actions. I think the softer brass wears in immediately.
I'm impressed with your gunsmithing prowess. I would never have been able to replace a cam, I'd just tried to get a whole new hammer.

[Octagonal Barrel]

  Wow i always said i'd never own a brass frame.......well now i got two... the asp/richland...

So you're sure it's an ASP?  I got one too!  (See my avatar)  I didn't know they made a brass '58 frame.  I have seen some brass ASP Colts, both '51's and '60's, but the brass '58 is news to me.

If you're looking for parts, I'll give you a clue.  Armi San Paolo was bought out by Euroarms.  You will not find ASP parts anywhere.  You can find Euroarms '58 parts only one place I know of:  The Winchester Sutler.

The guy who runs the place nearly died a couple of months ago, and is just getting back on his feet.  Very serious heart problem.  A lot of people prayed, and God answered.  He lived through something most don't.  But he is back in business, and if you need ASP/Euroarms parts for '58's , Colt '60's, or (if you're very lucky and actually own one) the Rogers and Spencer, you should contact him.

If you can't find Euroarms parts, some Armi San Marco parts are a close match for the ASP '58 (VTI for those).  After that, I'm pretty sure you're in for considerably more hand fitting work than usual.

By the way, you didn't ask about nipples, but the nipple threads on my ASP are a match for Piettas, not Ubertis (which is the opposite of what I've heard elsewhere).  I have both Tresos and Slixshots for mine, in the Pietta thread pitch.

[Gus Walker]

   Finely got the camera and puter talkin.Played with the color some anyway top is Pietta ,bottom is the Richland Arms \Euroarms\ASP. lol

[Gus Walker]

  Here they are as taken. You can rally see the difference in the frame size and the grips

[Octagonal Barrel]

Great photos, thanks for letting us see them.

I notice an interesting detail in your photo: you can see an equal amount of barrel threads inside the frames of both guns.  Armi San Paolo/Euroarms made loose copies of the Remington that preceeded the model Uberti and Pietta copied.  It's usually called a "Remington Beals" (although the top of an ASP/Euroarms barrel will have "New Model Army" stamped on it). The ASP's don't show much barrel thread at all.  The "cut out" in the frame is much tighter against the barrel, and that's why you can't see the threads.  As I understand it, the early Remmies fouled more quickly than the later ones.  The reason the later Remmies (which Uberti and Pietta copy) has the bigger cutout and you can see the threads is that it helped alleviate the fouling some.

A second distinguishing feature between Pietta, Uberti, and ASP/Euro replicas is grip size and contour.  The original Beals - as I understand it (hope to be corrected if I'm wrong) had a smaller grip than the later Remmie with the bigger cutout and more visible barrel threads.  Uberti closely duplicated the later Remmie, so it's grip is a little larger than the ASP.  But Pietta made a modern interpretation of the later Remmie, with fatter hand grips, and a slightly bigger overall revolver.

Both your Pietta and your "brand X" show the same amount of barrel thread.  Your photos also show the difference in grip sizes/shapes between the Pietta and the lower gun.  Due to exposed barrel threads, I'm sure you don't have a brass ASP.  The frame looks very different to me than the "Beals" ASP I have.  It could be a Uberti.  But I believe Armi San Marco made some brass Remmies.  I have not personally held an ASM '58, but the fact some parts interchange between my ASP and the ASM makes me think the size of their guns must have been closer to the Ubertis and ASPs.  So your second gun might be a brass Uberti (if Uberti made brass ones), or it might be an Armi San Marco.

Palmetto was another player in the replica game, and I have no idea if they made brass '58's.  Someone else will have to weigh in on that.  Also, I don't know how to tell the difference between a Uberti and an ASM, so someone else could contribute to that, too.  You did say your gun is sans maker stamps.  Is that characteristic of ASM?  Ubertis are usually plainly marked as such, with the "U in the castle" trademark.

VTI sells both Uberti and Armi San Marco '58 parts, so returning to the original post's quest, there's where you go for parts.  I've been told (have yet to try it myself) that many Uberti '58 parts are good fits for Euroarms '58's , so VTI may be your go-to whatever manufacturer you have.

Maybe brass frames aren't as strong or as historic, but they do make pretty guns.  Thanks again for sharing.

[Gus Walker]

   Thank ye sir.I have looked all over this gun and the only markings are the Richland arms And seriel number. Ther may be an overlapping double diamond on the cylinder but its hard to make out. I doknow that the pietta cylender will work in it without any mods. The cylinder bolt stop is considerably shorter. BUT its still locks the cylinder good and tight. This thing was a kit gun from what i could tell. I polished the frame and sanded down the gripes to fit and drawfiled the barell to remove the machining marks.

[Gus Walker]

   Took a picture of the difference in bolts. Top bolt in the pic is from the mystery 58 the bottom pic is from a pietta.
Each square is a quarter of an inch.

[Gus Walker]

    Whooo hoooo good news . Found a bolt that fits. Yessir sure did. Got one from Lodgewood MFG.
Its for an original . Fit great after thinning a it a mite. Up and runnin once more.

http://www.lodgewood.com/Remington-1858-New-Model-Army_c_61-2.html