newbie with new Spencer original

[Herbert]

Original Spencers were expected to feed properly without a magizine tube,this was done by loading the magizine and puting a cork in the butt end then with the barrel pointed down gravity fed the cartridges foward as the action is cycled,you know you have the right OACL and bullet shape when you can do this

[paledun]

Herbert, that is one interesting piece of information which I must try.  Due to the generosity of a SSS member, I do have a few original cartridges which have not been thru the action.  However, one has as it was the one I used for fixing the length of my current cartridges.  Since it already has scuffs on the surface oxide, I will give it a try and see how it works.  I also have more than plenty of the rounds I shoot at SASS and will also put them thru the test.  Results later.  Paledun

[KEN S]

Hey Paledun,  if you have some original Spencer 56 50's,  can you measure the TCL of the round?   I'm feeding just fine with 1.51 yet the book says 1.61 or so....just curious....Ken

[Two Flints]

Ken S,

By TCL do you mean OAL  

I like to be consistent with abbreviations, makes "things" less confusing to those of us (me in particular) still learning about loading

Two Flints

[Blair]

I have several 56-50 made by C D Leet. OAL is between 1.615 to 1.625.
I hope this helps.
My best,
Blair

[paledun]

Herbert, magazine removed, cartridges inserted, barrel pointed down and lever opened/closed.  The cartridges loaded and ejected without other than normal effort.  The Spencer operated correctly.  Now to find a proper sized cork.

Ken, 1.622 average/total cartridge length for 4 cartridges that range from 1.615 to 1.629.  Just a bit longer than Blair's average.  These guns must have been designed to allow some difference in cartridge lengths and bullet diameters.  Include 1860 manufacturing techniques and stress-produces rush and they are remarkable.

Paledun aka Sagerider

[paledun]

Already sent.  Paledun

[KEN S]

Thanks Blair,  I think the OAL (TCL,OCL)   length of bullet, etc. being longer in the original rounds comes from the point which if not on the Lyman mould.   We have to remove that to be safe with the center fire rounds...
   My 1865 carbine runs 1.52's through like butter. who knows.....

  Now if I could only get the stabler cutoff to work....I don't use it, so I locked it open, but if I turn it, it catches ok, but then will ride over the stabler cutoff and jam .  I have to remove the stabler to get the breach to return up all the way.  
   next snowy day I'll look into it.   I do have the original block, but too much trouble to put it on and see if it's just the centerfire block.  I can always single load it being careful to put the block in the right place....
 thanks for the info...Ken

[Herbert]

The OAL of the rounds I use in my original Spencers that feed the smoothest are 1.62 to 1.65,they are flat nosed.Original cartridges came in a variaty of lenths from 1.536 to 1.645 in 56-50 and up to 1.677 in the 56-52 interchangable cartridge

[KEN S]

it seems the 1.52 OAL OCL works best in mine.  it feeds just fine with 1.52 to 1.61, but the Lyman 350  515 has the crimping groove, so if I use that, the OCL is 1.52 and I can load 35 to 40 FFg GOEX CTG.     I have to compress the 40, but the 35 and 37 are not so compressed.  Which is better I know.   I'm trying a card and two paper wads.  all loaded up for tomorrow's test.
    Wife says I have to feed her whole famdamly todqay so shooting will have to wait.  Just kidding, family is everything...
   
   the 350 515 seems to work better unsized.  I hand lube w// spg instead of running them through the 515 sizing die.  
   '
   again, the stabler is on the list to play with, but I don't want to #$%^ up the gun, so I'll go easy.  
  My stabler is shaped as a spring,  the two ends have a space and they sort of spring together.  I wonder if that's the proper stabler?  I see pictures of a solid type.  
    any ideas?  
 Happy T day all.....interesting discussion...Ken  
   by the way, next week I'm going to be sworn in as Commander of my Coast Guard Auxiliary Flotilla.   kind of proud of that.

[ndnchf]

Ken - that does not sound like the Stabler cut off on my 1865.  I'm no expert, but I know Spencer came out with their own cut off, but not sure what it looks like.  Or yours could be something made by a gunsmith.

Congrats on the Flotilla, a wonderful opportunity - from an old retired Navy Chief.

[KEN S]

No I don't think it's a gunsmith  cutoff, It's too well made.  I'm just not describing it.  It does work, but if I push too hard, it goes over the cutoff and won't come back up.  the cutoff is countersunk to fit the screw, and is the shape shown in pictures.   
   I think it's the centerfire block and not the cutoff.   
   I can use it if I'm careful not to overdo the down stroke, but I use the mag anyway, so no biggie...
 
   Yeah,,,I'm Army back in the day,,,Vietnam 68 and 69, and now in the Coast Guard uniform.  We do patrols etc.  very active. 
    thanks for the good wishes. and welcome home brother....Ken

[Herbert]

The split Stabler cutt off is corect for Spencer and Burncide made 1865 Spencers ,it is allso corect on Spencers that were originly fitted with the Stabler cutt-off that went through the Springfield factory for repaire or conversion.Sprinfield made a solid cutt-off and trigger plate to suit that was fitted to converted and repaired Spencers that did not originly have the cutt-off fitted.The working of the Stabler cutt-off is very simple and only wear to the lenth or a loose trigger plate(most common cause of not working) will stop it working,take off the trigger plate and clean under the plate and were it fits the action,replace and tighten down,if it still does not work it is too short ,somthing that is very unlikly as the ends of the cutt-off should not touch any thing,it works when the buttom of the upper block comes in contact with the flat edge of the bottom the cutt-off that is positioned in the purpose made squae groove in the lower breech block

[Two Flints]

Ken S.

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,45872.msg608843.html#msg608843

And it's O A L

Two Flints

[KEN S]

Herbert, thanks for the info on the Stabler cut off.  I'll check out the trigger plate.
  and Two Flints. 
       great site brother.  I was in I corps.  Danang, Phu Bai, Chu Lai, and finally Quang Tri and Dong Ha. 
Memories, Huh...

       Welcome home brothers....Kern

[KEN S]

range report. 1865 spencer original carbine. 56 50
     350 grain lyman  bullets inspected and culled RNFP  hand lubed from mould .515
     35 grains of GOEX CTG weighed
     one card wad
     two newspaper wads on top.  (prevents card wad from sticking to the bullet in flight)
     large regular pistol primers
         held tight to the shoulder to counter heavy hammer blow.

    group.  5 to 6 inches at fifty yards. not so good but.......

   SAME AS ABOVE BUT WITH GOEX FFg .
     group  2 1/4 inch five shot group. group was round and tight
    and again  3 inch eight shot group. again round and tight
       THE FFg made all the difference.
next.  I'll try the above with lg pistol mag. primers.

[ndnchf]

That's great to hear Ken.  Goex 2F works best for me in my 1865/1871 Infantry rifle also.  I tried a variety of black powders (Swiss 1.5F, Swiss 2F, Goex 1F, Goex 2F and even Pyrodex RS).  The Goex 2F consistently gave the best results.  I have some Olde Eynsford 2F I want to try, but I doubt it will be any better than this.

 



I don't know what it is about Goex 2f and original .56-50 Spencers, but it seems to be a match made in heaven 

[KEN S]

wow, great groups.  of course my barrel is shorter..(NO I' won't go there...HA).
    45 grains, you must be really compressing the load.  and you know I'm going to try that.
    with 35, weighed, I get slight compression.  could be it likes more compression.  I'll try 40 and above just to see.
   Santa is bringing me the Spencer book so I'll have some good reading. 

     what about primers.  those groups were lg pistol regular, and I just bought a bunch of lg pistol magnum. 
   they're next on the test list...
       good info...thanks....Ken

[Ibgreen]

His Springfield Spencer's chamber allows for a slightly longer case.  He just needs to start calling it a 56-50 magnum!

[KEN S]

thought so...I think I'd have to use a sledge hammer to get 40 in my cases.  But ya' all know I gotta try it! (:-)   Ken