Backstitch, pull the threads through.....

[Skeeter Lewis]

I only hand stitch and find it hard to get the stitch to lie on top of the previous one. Is there a technique that pards know of to get it right? It's not lack of practice.

[Camano Ridge]

I hand stitch only so I can't speak to machine sewing. SKeeter I don't know if there is a full proof method for achieving what you want. When backstitching the top stitch seems to want to roll off the top of the bottom stitch. I make my stitching groove deep and asnarrow as possible. Here are pictures of a flintlock holster I am making the backstitch is the first three stitches on the bottom stitch line left corner. You can see them in the picture, in person you have to get up close to really see the back stitch.

[Massive]

Something you might try Skeeter, is to do one lockstich at the turnaround.  I'd run a sample to check this myself, but I am travelling this week.  But what I am thinking is that as one comes around to start the backstitch, the threads pass each other to their insides, basically reverse sides in the stitch.  If that is not what one wants a single lockstitch would swap sides, for whatever that is worth.

To perform a single lockstitch start back on one side only so that both threads are on the same side.  Take the visiting thread around the onside thread and back through the hole it just came through.  You can go round the onside thread in one of two directions, so choose the one that ends up putting it on the same side as the retreating line of stitiching.  Before you start backstitichng for real, be sure to center the "knot" in the work.

Another option, particularly for softer natural threads is to just make a "half knot" in the hidden part of the stitch, as this will change sides in the stitch, though it is sometimes hard to hide.

[Graveyard Jack]

Craig, do you have more pics of that leather?  Nice.  Also, where did you get the thread?  Weaver?  I have been looking for a source, for machine stuff, but I can't find anything that will do a one cone order at a decent rate.  Cansew up here is supposed to have it.  The one time I phoned though, they said they didn't have it.

All my stitching is done by hand so I don't know about finding colored thread for machines. I do see that Weaver has it in several colors. I took a chance on some thread I found at Tandy. It's pre-waxed (not overly so) but it's flat. Thought I might have issues with it getting twisted or not laying down right but it worked well and did not pick up the dye too awful bad. I wasn't going to use it for the mainseam but after doing the flames decided to use it there too. It does seem a little more prone to fraying than the usual corded thread.

[Red Cent]

OK, I think I am going to modify the backstitch. Start backstitching two stitches, then start forward. Works the same way on the other end.

[KidTerico]

All my stitching is done by hand so I don't know about finding colored thread for machines. I do see that Weaver has it in several colors. I took a chance on some thread I found at Tandy. It's pre-waxed (not overly so) but it's flat. Thought I might have issues with it getting twisted or not laying down right but it worked well and did not pick up the dye too awful bad. I wasn't going to use it for the mainseam but after doing the flames decided to use it there too. It does seem a little more prone to fraying than the usual corded thread.

[ Craig C great job of sewing and beautiful holster. KT

[Graveyard Jack]

Thank you!

[Massive]

Thanks Craig.  Just as nice full size.  I know the thread you are talking about.  it is the stuff Will recommends in the pattern, at least for the top-stitching.  Not that it would kill me to hand stitch the seam, and would probably be cheaper and easier.  Have machine will use, no mater what.  LOL!

[FEATHERS]

Red Cent, I also hand sew,& I start at the back of my work leaving a tail of thread so that as I stitch I tuck the tail under each stitch so it locks itself in & when I sew back I lock the thread under the finished sewing a couple of times using the needle & snip it off. I'm not as experienced as a lot of the guys here but I find it works well for me. Feathers

[Red Cent]

Thanks Feathers. I truly wish I had started this long ago and learned how to handstitch.

[Massive]

Of course on the randals, etc...  they don't backstitch, and if they did , the awls might well make a mess.  So one option is to do as they do, and backstitch by hand.

One thing I always tell students (I don't teach leather though), is work you problems out on scrap, and build your techniques separately from "projects".  I get that a lot from other pros.  But people always seem to want to learn while doing projects, which leads to some scruffy looking projects, and often a hard time as they stress out over whether they can get it right, or what happened when they didn't.

The middle path is to at least manage the issue.  In this case that could be something like practice the backstitching from time to time, but when you have all but the last stitches in a project, hand stitch it down, so one's head doesn't explode.  Then the two trajectories will eventually overlap, and one can comfortably do the hard thing on a project.

Oh one last thing.  I often find myself backstitching the cast on, and turning the piece 180 to cast off.  I don't like running the machine backwards when signing off because while the cobra will track back flawlessly, stuff like welts may move the piece, and I can't always tell when the machine is sewing.  So that is one thing I do, I cast off after a 180 so I can really see what I am doing.  Meanign I sew the "backstitches" in the forward direction.

[bedbugbilly]

If I'm reading your original post correctly - you are concerned how the backstitch looks on MACHINE SEWN stitching.

I don't have a sewing machine so I hand stitch.  My personal thoughts would be that while I understand what you are concerned about, if you backstitch carefully on the machine the back stitch should blend in.  While I understand that "looks" are important, I view a holster as a "utility item" - it's made to hold the handgun securely and protect it  My main concern would first be that the stitching is not going to break/unravel thus making the holster loose the ability to do what it is intended to - it would especially upset me if I purchased it and it happened early on. 

On the other hand, we're dealing with a majority of folks who don't view their holsters as an everyday "tool" - it's more of a'fashion statement".  I  dont' see how a quality holster or other item can be constructed without backstitching - whether it is hand sewn pr machine sewn.  All you can do is the best job that you can on machine backstitching - I'm sure it's a skill that improves with every item a person machine sews.  As Louis Sullivan stated . . . "form follows function".  For those that use their leather gear as "tools" . . . durability and function comes first - I want a holster that is going to protect my handgun - expecially when it's an expensive one - that's the primary job of it. . . . then I'll worry about how pretty it makes me look.   

[Red Cent]

Bedbugbilly, I agree with your post. As with most situations dealing with a sewing machine, the backstitch, while it sounds simple, you need to watch your stuff.
I have learned alot on this forum and a couple of others. The actual purpose of the backstitch for one.
The original question asked was about the options on ending a stitch line and what do you do with the thread tails. Maybe I should add that the question was asked and was meant to refer to double layer leather as in a lined holster or belt. In my logical mind, a backstitch left two ends unimpeded to come loose. You snipped real close and let it be. I have to get my head around that simple but documented answer.
I really appreciate all of the responses. I would hope that my questions and the answers not only helps me but all those who will read about this subject.

[Massive]

Two minor points RC.  You must own a fair bit of leather, and get to look at a lot more of it.  When it is properly made the stitches don't unravel in the works of Bianchi etc...  I basically only have the Chapman holster I bought off ebay to look at.  It is double, and has backstitching, and also continued stitching between the flat and the welt.  It's old and it holds together.  I just do that.

The other thing is stuff looks scary sometimes when one looks at it and sees it with the maker's eyes.  But a few day's later it looks pretty normal.

[Cliff Fendley]

The other thing is stuff looks scary sometimes when one looks at it and sees it with the maker's eyes.  But a few day's later it looks pretty normal.

A very good point, a good maker is usually his worse critic. You will probably always see those little things that others wont see because you stared at the whole piece, a piece at a time, a stitch at a time, a stamp at a time, etc, etc, until it's completion.

You as the maker will know where that one dumb stamp bounced or was slightly crooked, or that one dumb stitch is that just didn't lay right, etc, etc.

[Graveyard Jack]

Ain't that the truth!

[Massive]

Another thing that occurs to me is that there is another method of locking the stitch.  It consists of taking two stitches, going back one, taking two, going back one, then tearing off down the line.  The interesting thing about this method is that the first stitch isn't doubled.  That has the effect  that it could slip out and ruin the look.  But the fact is it doesn't do that.  Which is even more impressive than the fact that a doubled stitch doesn't pull out.

Another minor point relative to stitching is that the lining is not always backstitched, as RC knows from the Bianchi tapes, John only backstitches ends of stitching.  On a lined holster, sometimes the stitch line comes to an end, and sometimes it does not, and gets plugged during the sewing of the welt, or some other part.

[Red Cent]

Interesting points Massive. I have tried the "back two stitches/forward two stitches" and this seems to work well. I will have to try your suggestion.

I think there is a distinct difference from the so called speed rigs and the period correct holster. Most of the speed rigs are double lined and, in a lot of cases, are minimal creating a need to wet and form (force) fit the holster. Most of the rigs are not boned but simply take on the profile of the holster from some stretch. After this thread, I feel a lot better about the back stitching.
Now that begs for a discussion on making holsters but that could take twenty more pages.