A Question for "The Powers That Be"...

[Guns Garrett]

Mainly our resident "Ordnance Sergeant", Drydock:

In the GAF Uniform Regs, it specifies:

"GAF members may wear the uniform of any military or para-military service, to include but not restricted to the Army, Navy, Marines, National Guard, Militia, Territorials, and post-war veteran organizations such as the Grand Army of the Republic.

Para-military is defined as any unit raised during our time period for the purpose of providing protection against hostile forces or criminals. The Northwest Mounted Police is an example this type of unit."

In this context, I enquire as to whether the US Indian Police would fall under the category of "para-military". 
They DID have a uniform - mostly cast-off or superceded US Army uniforms - provided by the Federal Government.
They were issued Government-issued nickle-plated Remington Model 1875 in .45 Colt
They were issued Government-issued longarms: 1873 Trapdoors, and also SNIDER carbines, purchased from Britain.

  Since they did have a uniform, and were issued "mil spec" firearms, would not a member portraying a member of the US Indian Police be eligible for Brigade Champion/Iron Trooper?

I ask only because that the organization could be classified as "Law Enforcement", OR "para-military", but since the NMP is cited above, I just wanted clarification...

[Niederlander]

I'm certainly not the "powers that be", but your argument seems reasonable to me.  Are you contemplating putting together such an outfit?

[St. George]

U.S. Indian Police help
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2007, 10:23:33 pm »

   
A couple of years ago - there was a question on Indian Police on 'The Historical Society Forum'.

It starts on the third page - goes on for four pages, and covers the issue Remington as well as a link or two that could prove useful.

You might want to start there - or read:

'Indian Police and Judges' - William T. Hagan - ISBN 0-8032-7205-7.

For a quick overview - it goes into depth, and provides an excellent bibliography.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Guns Garrett]

I myself wasn't considering doing such an impression.  The subject came up in a conversation about the GAF Muster this past weekend.  An acquaintance who is of Indian ancestry (and owns a Trapdoor carbine) was "kinda-sorta" interested in what GAF does, but wasn't too sure about being cavalry or an "Indian Scout"..said he would "feel like a traitor*"...just joking around.  Having heard about some of the detailed (and expensive) items some need to make a complete military impression, he was rather reluctant, as well. I pointed out he COULD possibly do an Indian Policeman if he bought MY nickel-plated Remington 1875...

A CW-era sack coat, blue trousers, hat, and badge (plus my Remington) would give him a inexpensive start on creating an impression.  If I LOANED him the Remmy, he could probably get started for about $200...

* Not sure if he was aware a member of the Indian Police, Red Tomahawk, shot Sitting Bull...

[Niederlander]

Sounds like a great idea!  I THINK S & S Firearms has the insignia he'd need.  I believe the Time-Life Old West series has some fairly good pictures, too.  Good place to start, anyway.

[pony express]

I'm not a "power that be" either, but it sounds reasonable to me. But it does appear to me that there's really no way to really compete in the uniform classes (especially dress) without spending quite a bit. however, with a few basic items, you can come, compete in the shooting, and look reasonable close to what you're going for. Indian police sounds like it may be one of the less expensive impressions to do, at least at a basic level, since Civil War gear can be used and it's usually available for less than later period items.

[Drydock]

The Classes are defined by the weapon more than the uniforms.  THe Weapons discussed would place the shooter in the Milspec Single Shot class, with the portrayal as discussed eligible for Brigade Champion consideration.   Para Military and irregulars are encouraged to bring some sort of Provenance, in this case most likely a photograph, showing the outfit. 

One of the updates to the BC computation is; in that we are a shooting based organization, the FIELD uniform will now take precedence over any dress uniform in the BC calculation.  Field uniforms tend to be simpler, and easier to aquire than Undress or Full Dress uniforms

Come on out and shoot!

[Guns Garrett]

I'll keep pestering him to join up...

[Drydock]

For that matter, a native american warrior, for example, a Cheyenne Dog Soldier, would be considered a Military/para-military portrayal, and thus be in consideration for the BC.

[Delmonico]

For that matter, a native american warrior, for example, a Cheyenne Dog Soldier, would be considered a Military/para-military portrayal, and thus be in consideration for the BC.

LOL, I can't help myself and everyone knows I am joking, but how many times have you heard about Native Warriors going into battle naked>  Drum roll, "would that be considered an Undress Uniform."

[Texas Lawdog]

What catagorie would that fall under?

[Pitspitr]

For that matter, a native american warrior, for example, a Cheyenne Dog Soldier, would be considered a Military/para-military portrayal, and thus be in consideration for the BC.

Another thought to add to Delmonico's comment; a Dog Soldier would only be able to compete in SASS matches. When in battle they staked their sash to the ground so that they couldn't retreat. That would make it awfully tough to advance through our skirmish stages. 

Seriously though, I don't see why an Indian Policeman impression wouldn't qualify under our rules.

[Delmonico]

I for one would love to see someone do a native impression, all though the naked part might be scary.

[Drydock]

Well, in such an Undress(ed) portrayal, classification would be determined, as always, by the rifle used.  I would be interested to know where reloads might be carried . . .  

Of course, we have precedent, as we allready know what is worn under a kilt.

Any Dog Soldier would be assisted by Skip the Wonder Dog, who would be more than happy to carry the sash stake.

Delmonico in a night shirt scares me . . .  

Seriously, it does not hurt to say again (and again, and again) you do not need to be in a uniform, or in any sort of military outfit to shoot, and to compete in class.  It is only in the final computation for the Brigade Champion at the Grand Muster, that such things come into consideration,  and even then the expense is far less than many seem to think, certianly less than the extra weapons needed for other historical action shooting.

Just a for instance, but the pants I wore in this years GM were taken off a trade table at our local cowboy shoot for $20.

[Stu Kettle]

I'm not the military type, so have no uniform of any kind. I wear the same outfit to GAF shoots that I wear to SASS shoots, I bring half as many guns and have twice as much fun.  It's ok with me that I won't win the BC.

[US Scout]

In the GAF Uniform Regs, it specifies:

"GAF members may wear the uniform of any military or para-military service, to include but not restricted to the Army, Navy, Marines, National Guard, Militia, Territorials, and post-war veteran organizations such as the Grand Army of the Republic.

Para-military is defined as any unit raised during our time period for the purpose of providing protection against hostile forces or criminals. The Northwest Mounted Police is an example this type of unit."

In this context, I enquire as to whether the US Indian Police would fall under the category of "para-military". 
They DID have a uniform - mostly cast-off or superceded US Army uniforms - provided by the Federal Government.
They were issued Government-issued nickle-plated Remington Model 1875 in .45 Colt
They were issued Government-issued longarms: 1873 Trapdoors, and also SNIDER carbines, purchased from Britain.

  Since they did have a uniform, and were issued "mil spec" firearms, would not a member portraying a member of the US Indian Police be eligible for Brigade Champion/Iron Trooper?

I ask only because that the organization could be classified as "Law Enforcement", OR "para-military", but since the NMP is cited above, I just wanted clarification...

Well, since I am THE "power that be" of the GAF  , this is how I see it:

US Indian Police would fall under the definition of para-military, the same as the Northwest Mounted Police of Canada.  They performed not only a law enforcement function but a quasi-military function as well.  

Indian Scouts could be either para-military or military, depending on the context.  As an example, the Cheyenne Indian Scouts in the 1890s were an organized and official company, with an official uniform, within regiments of the US Army, so would be considered military.  On the other hand, the Pawnee Scouts under the brothers North, did not have an official uniform nor were considered an official part of the US Army, but since they performed the same relative role as white scouts, they would therefore be considered para-military.

I have no issue with anyone competing as a Dog Soldier (fully, partially or completely un-dressed), or a Zulu, or a Boxer, however I suggest they would be ineligible for Muster Champion (though I realize an argument could be made that they were part of organized military force).  

US Scout
Brig Gen
GAF, Commanding

[Old Top]

US Scout,

I can concur with you thinking on the Indian Scout issue and I beleive it will create more diverisity.  But my question to the "Powers That Be" is will we ever get upgraded on the awarding criteria on the GAF page, when I last checked it was under review to be rewriten but that was in 2008, I realize that some thinking on the matter is in order, but on the maganatude of five years?   

Old Top

[US Scout]

US Scout,

I can concur with you thinking on the Indian Scout issue and I beleive it will create more diverisity.  But my question to the "Powers That Be" is will we ever get upgraded on the awarding criteria on the GAF page, when I last checked it was under review to be rewriten but that was in 2008, I realize that some thinking on the matter is in order, but on the maganatude of five years?   

Old Top

No excuses!  It's taken far too long to update and as soon as I wrap up the Muster Guide I'll get on it.

US Scout
GAF, Commanding

[Old Top]

US Scout,

Thank You

Old Top