Unique belly gun... please tell me this isn't what I think this is.

[St. George]

Yes.

The work could have been done by Tom Haas or by Horacio Acevedo (who often worked with Haas) - both did superb work of this nature, recreating to order.

Scouts Out!

[Noz]

I'd keep it. You still don't have a "hands on" evaluation of the gun!

[Short Knife Johnson]

Oh yes, I intend on keeping it.  Not really buying the "Colt Centennial" thing.  But I do appreciate their input. Will be phoning Colt today And ask their historical department. I'm still leaning towards it being a copy under license during the period.

[Bruce W Sims]

Just a quick technical question.....

If this were an authentic Patterson, would the gun have come with a kit for loading it....given that
there is no lever on the gun for pressing the ball home? I'm guessing there would be no "reloading" away
from camp, right?  Would COLT have made such a kit, or would the new owner have to suck for
themselves? Are there records of COLT making such a thing? Thoughts?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[Short Knife Johnson]

To the best of my knowledge all Colt revolvers came with complete loading gear available. Mould, powder measure, etc.  Patersons had a small lever tool that fit in the slot of the arbor to seat the ball. Later Patersons were given a built in ball rammer.  Most of these examples are known as "Ehler Patersons". They were assembled by Colt's partner after things went bust.

[Whitesongs]

I am currently working on - what I hope will be - a perfect Paterson replica.
The main base gun for this project is a Uberti with loading lever.
Although the Uberti is very good in most areas, (and a shame they are no longer producing them)  there are some profiling differences.
After some careful filing and polishing I now have a barrel as close to an original that I can achieve.
I then tinkered with the idea that this gun would be cased with an additional 9 inch barrel  - and the only 9 inch Paterson barrel around is Pietta.
So, I bought a Pietta and am working on the profiling of the barrel, which needs a far more work compared to what was required on the Uberti.
So, to my point, and I hate to disappoint but . . .the gun you have looks very very much the same as the Pietta I've just dismantled.
The main giveaway is where the recoil shield meets the frame. On the Pietta you will find a small triangular gap -  of . . well, basically bad fitting. It makes the recoil shield look as though it's perched on the top of the frame.
Compare it to any original and I think you will struggle to find any gaps at all in this area.
Also the bevel on the barrel lug is far more pronounced and rounded on a Colt.

All the best,
Whitesongs

[Short Knife Johnson]

Page 53 of Dennis Adler's book shows 3 copies of Paterson's revolvers.
One is a copy by J.P. Sauer & Sons, a cased revolver in a case with accessories.
The second is a Belgium Brevet copy of a No. 2, sold in England.
The third is a one in a case with accessories that a Dennis LeVett is almost convinced that is a European copy. He also suspects that it may be an American copy made in Winterset, Iowa. Perhaps a copy made in the 1800s.

I just picked up a copy of that book a few days ago.  The third pistol is a pretty close match actually.

[Bruce W Sims]

To the best of my knowledge all Colt revolvers came with complete loading gear available. Mould, powder measure, etc.  Patersons had a small lever tool that fit in the slot of the arbor to seat the ball. Later Patersons were given a built in ball rammer.  Most of these examples are known as "Ehler Patersons". They were assembled by Colt's partner after things went bust.

Thanks...much appreciated....

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[Hargrave]

In reference to the National Firearms Museum ....

Yes, that sounds legit. I have used them for a resource in the past and they have always been helpful and honest. Remember, their reputation is on the line as much, if not more than yours. If you are worried you have an original and they are trying to "trick" you out of ownership by sending it to them, they are not. They have a vested interest and entire department devoted to getting fakes off the market. A high quality fake is dangerous to the market and reduces investor confidence all around.

I was thinking about this, my first instinct is that you have a reproduction that was aged very well. If you want an expert to look at it, I am sure we can arrange for one. I know a few here in the Chicago market who do Museum work and have some experience with Patterson pistols.

Either way, I like the NFM and the staff. I find them trustworthy and wonderful to work with.

[St. George]

I second Hargrave's comments - the folks at the NFM are straight shooters with a legitimate Mission - it's not a scam.

Personally, I think the work came out of Tom Haas' shop and may have had Horacio Acevedo's assistance - both were quite well known, and did masterful work.

Pieces like yours were faked not so much to be 'fakes' as to be 'space fillers' because of the rarity of the original piece.

They had a sort of legitimacy to them when they were known to be what they were, but like anything of that nature, if the wrong guy got one out of a collection and removed any markings that indicated the work and then artificially aged it - then all bets were off.

The piece is nice enough as-is - but looking at the photos, it doesn't ring true.

Scouts Out!

[Short Knife Johnson]

I'm going to reiterate.  At no time was this piece being touted as being a real live Patent Arms Paterson revolver.  It was sold to me as a period knock-off and I have no intent on passing it off as anything but.  Due to some of the markings and just the way it was manufactured, it did cross my mind that there might have been a chance it may have been genuine.  Such things can happen.  My personal quest is to find out what this thing is precisely, and my normal channels have come up empty.

The information from the NRA museum is appreciated.  I have no doubt to the purity of their motives, but find it amusing that when you show something interesting to a museum, they immediately hit you up to donate the item.  That is neither here nor there.  I've watched a number of their videos and yes, they are doing good work, as is the BBHC, and many other museums.  I just found it strange I received an almost hurried response with a confusing and not overly logical answer.  I simple "I don't know" would do.  

Planning on following up on these Tom Haas and Horacio Acevedo characters.  Also page 53 of Dennis Adler's book has some interesting suggestions regarding the knock-offs.

[will52100]

No problem, think you've got an awesome handgun.  Shame it isn't real, but then it's still an awesome repo.

[Short Knife Johnson]

Thank you. I'm all about the unusual.

I just got off the phone with the historical department at Colt.  The fellow I spoke with told me that Colt ceased production of cap and ball revolvers from 1870 until 1976 when they brought out the 2nd generation Dragoons, 1851 Navies, and 1860 Armies for the Bi-centennial of the United States of America. That might have been the cause for the NRA Museum's assumptions.

[litl rooster]

Stu i'd shoot it too. Right after i rubbed my greasy mitts and drooled on it some. Shoot it swab it out, put it away

[St. George]

As an aside - if someone at Colt stated those dates, then they really need to re-look the R.L. Wilson handbook  and 'Proofhouse' they use for reference, just like everyone else does.

Colt continued to build the Model 1849, Model 1851 and Model 1860 Army until 1873.

The Model 1851 Navy was reintroduced in 1971 - well before the Bicentennial.

You'd think they might know this, but Colt's Historical Department is frequently wrong...

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[SaguaroMike]

I do not know if you still have this Paterson revolver but I can tell you  for sure- this is  a quite good defarbed  copy. About 50 years old .Made by Mofra in Itally in the late 1960s.

[Ben Beam]

I did a google search just because I was curious. I see a number of MOFRA Patersons, but none in brass. Also read they didn't start business until the 70s, although who knows where they got their info. What are you basing your assessment on?

[SaguaroMike]

What you mean" in brass" ?
See at the picture on first page .There is only brass front sight .
Here you have the sample of Mofra Paterson made in 1968 ( Code XXIV) .Early serial number 849 not so far from our  132
http://www.naturabuy.fr/Rare-Colt-Paterson-Mofra-Marietta-Ohio-cal-36-Date-1968-TBE-item-3667360
Comparing the details of both revolvers-you can see it is made in the same factory.