varget in 45-75?

[will52100]

Anybody used varget in 45-75?  On load data website they list a mid range varget load of 40 grains with a 350 grain cast bullet at 1352fps.  Does this sound rite?  I loaded one up to see where the powder sits in the case and it just about fills it up to the bottle neck.

This load will be fired in a Uberti NWMP carbine.

Thanks

[will52100]

Finally loaded up a few and tried the out.

First load was 41 grains of varget under a 330 grain hollow point bullet.  Average velocity was 1094fps, high 1130fps, low 1069fps.  Load data list this load as 1390fps.  Of course this is out of a Uberti NWMP and load data is out of a 26" Chaparrel rifle.

Second load was 40 grains of varget under a 350 grain bullet.  Average velocity was 1085fps, high 1145fps and low 1000fps. 

Both loads shot close to the same point of aim at 100 yards.  Neither grouped especially well, though both were good enough for minute of deer.  The varget surprised me, it's my favorite powder for 7.62 nato and 30-06 and is very consistent and accurate in those loadings.

I'll give 5744 a try next, once I get some powder that is.

Part of the poor groups may have been me as I was shooting into the setting sun and more interested in velocity consistency than bench rest accuracy at this point.

The rifle is a Uberti NWMP that I've lightened the trigger pull to an even 3.5 pounds and slicked up the internals.  I've made a new front sight for it so it's shooting to point of aim at 100 yards now.  Brass was Jameison 45-75, CCI large rifle primmer, 20-1 cast bullets sized to .458, lube was 60% bee's wax/40 Vaseline, and the barrel has been fire lapped.  The fire lapping did improve the groups, as did the trigger job.

I may try the same loads with pufflon next time to see if that shrinks the groups.

[ndnchf]

Good info, thanks for sharing.  Keep us posted.

[will52100]

Took it out this after noon and did some more testing.  I ran some black powder rounds through it this time, 66 grains of swiss 2f compressed about 3/16" after drop tubing.  Same 330 grain hollow point and 350 grain bullets but this time lubed with my black powder lube.  Basically a mix of mutton tallow, bee's wax, olive oil and fairly soft but stabile in warm temps.  So far has done very well in every other black powder rifle or pistol I have.

Any way it was accurate enough on steel, but after 20 rounds the accuracy started drooping fast.  Was fairly easy to clean after, but noticed the fouling was starting to get crusty in the barrel.  When I cleaned it a good bit of lead came out as well.  Wasn't hard to get it out, but lots of small slivers.

After cleaning I tried some more varget loads and was doing good for the first 5 rounds then the sixth failed to fire.  Turns out primer ignited, but didn't ignite the powder.  It did shove the bullet into the barrel and when I levered the action spilt powder went everywhere.  I've been using CCI large rifle primers, wondering if I shouldn't go to magnum primers.  This is the first time it's happened like this, but on normal loads there's a good bit of unburned powder left in the barrel.  On occasion a couple of grains get into the chamber and leave dents when the next round if fired.  Does this with or without pufflon on top of the powder.  I've used a good bit of varget in 7.62 nato and never had this issue.

[will52100]

Took it out again today and did 10 more varget, and 20 more black powder loads.

So far not real impressed with accuracy.  Best group of the day was 4" with most of the spread vertical.  Seem to be not much difference between my varget and black powder loads accuracy wise.  Except the black powder 330 grain loads shot a bit lower than the 350 grain loads.

I think part of it might be the rather open sights.  If I was to rest it on the bench I think I could shrink the groups a bit.  In any event I can at least hit a 6" steel plate at 100 yards consistently if I really pay attention to it.  I'd call that good enough for brush hunting deer, but I'd like to dial it in better.  Maybe I need more practice?  An excuse to shoot more it is then.

[pinto beans]

Will52100,

Thanks for posting the progress on the testing. 

The practice is something I would like more of myself.  Seems the last outing few weeks back when I managed 20 rounds I was thinking things were improving with my shooting, the rifle seems to be doing good - the week link was the feller holding it!!!!

Keep at it and let us know how it goes!!

PB

[will52100]

Thanks, this rifle has been a headache since day one.  At least now it's putting rounds in the general vicinity of the target.

One thing that has helped a lot was getting a set of moulds from NOE, one 4 cavity hollow point mould and one 5 cavity flat point mould.  Makes it faster to cast for and load than a single cavity.

So far I'm sizing to .458, thinking of lubing a few up and leaving them as cast at .459.  If they chamber they might shrink the groups that way.

What is bugging me is that even if it's me part of the time I know I can take any other rifle in the safe and do way better.

[will52100]

Finally got some more 5744, and test some loads today from the bench.  Best group was with 28 grains of 5744 with a 350 bullet.  With this load and forearm rested on sand bags I can get a consistent 3", a couple of times got 2" groups.  One 5 shot group had 3 touching, but two flyers messed the group up. 

I still think I can shrink them somewhat, was getting a good bit or mirage on the front sight.  The front blade is very thin compared to the opening in the rear sight.  Starting to think seriously about adding a bb to the front sight blade to help it out.

On interesting development is I found out once the barrel heats up the impact area drops drastically.  Like 8 inches low.  I'm thinking I need to relieve the forearm and make it basically free floating.  I'm thinking as the barrel heats up it's expanding and the forearm is putting a bind on the barrel making it flex down just a hair.

[will52100]

Got out today and chronoed the 28 grain load of 5744.  High was 1349 fps, low was 1316 fps.  Not too shabby out of the 22" barrel.

I did some more accuracy testing, this time I used my standard black powder lube and was surprised at how dirty the bore was after.  Also noted a drop in accuracy, but that's more than likely the loose nut behind the trigger.  Best group was 3 1/2" wide by 1 1/2" high.  Several of the groups were 2" vertical and 6" wide.  That tells me I'm having trouble keeping the front sight centered in the wide open rear.

Going to play with this load a bit more and try some more black powder.  One I'm satisfied at my point of aim for 100 yards I'm thinking of adding a bead to the front sight so there's not so much space on either side of the rear sight when aiming.

[larryo_1]

Will:
I broke with tradition and installed a fibre optic front sight on my 76.  For my old eyes it was just the ticket.  You might consider  doing such a dastardly deed to help.  My rifle does shoot better since I did this terrible thing.

[will52100]

Where did you find one the rite size and height?  Can't say it hasn't crossed my mind.  I'm also thinking of splitting a short piece of brass rod and glueing it to the front blade to see if it makes  a difference, if it does I'll solder it on.

[larryo_1]

I got  mine out of Brownells.  Had to file the sight base open a tad bit more.  If you are interested, I can dig out the receipt and get the order and part number for you and the cost, etc.  For me  it was damn well worth it.

[will52100]

Thanks, but I can search Bronell's.  All I need to do is mike the current one for height and get one close.  I took a piece of 3/32" brass rod and cut and filed a notch in it and ground and polished all but a little away and glued it to the front sight blade.  Sure makes a difference.  I'm going to test fire maybe today and if I like it I'll probably solder it in place.

[larryo_1]

Sounds like a plan.  Mine is made by Marbles and is called a "Glow Sight" and is the green color.  much brighter for me than the orange one.  Good luck.

[will52100]

Thanks.  Just got back from trying the brass bead out and it really makes life easier.  I just got done soldering it on and cleaning it up and re blueing the front sight.  Waiting for a friend to drop by and were going to try it again.  Got to get some more large rifle primers, completely out except for magnums which I use for BP rounds.

[larryo_1]

I've used magnum primers in my BP loads but didn't k now  that much difference between them and the regular ones.  I tried them on my 76 grain loads of Swiss 1½ and like I said I didn't know that much difference in them as it seemed that the velocites were about the same.  They are more spendy too.

[will52100]

True, but there what I've got from when I used to shot BPCR.  I got a couple bricks of normal primers today so back to reloading.  And a short stop to fix the rifle again.  This time the nose cap flew off and mag and fore grip came loose.  The piece that the nose cap bolt goes through is too shallow and loose in the dove tail.  I had soldered it once before, but didn't get it completely sweated under and apparently the mag tube moving about 1/16" during recoil broke the solder.  This time I silver brazed it on.  If it comes off again I'll weld the sucker.  This rifle had to be made on a Friday evening after a couple bottles of wine.

[larryo_1]

Man--that is tough to take.  I have never had any trouble with my rifle other than that 12+ pound trigger pull that i got down to about 4# after a lot of swearing and filing and stuff. The only hangup I had was the mag tube plug and that did some doing.  i think that they put that on with a torque wrench or something.  You are probably right in that they could have had a gallon or two of that red stuff on a Friday for lunch or something.  Hang in tere it will all work out.  These are pretty good rifle and a damn site cheaper than getting an original.