1894 Stevens favorite, Calibers .22,.25,.32, others, either RF or CF

[Chev. William]

Tuesday, My gunsmith had me try out one of my 1894 Actins after he had upgraded the Screws Strengths and fitted a new Extractor for .25 Stevens Long RF (I paid the labor to date at $150>00).
I found that the firing pin had too much travel, hanging up on the hammer if the rifle was tilted up and not retracting if the rifle was pointed down.  This 'not retracting' snagged the rim of my adapter cases and of the straight RF cases.  Fore those that die not get snagged, it took two strikes of the firing pin to discharge a round.  Careful measurements and observations found some possible solutions to the problems so I took the rifle back to my gunsmith Wednesday, along with  some added parts and revised cartridges Saturday.

First, I found the original Stevens Chambers were worn from about 100 years of use.  The Rim Rebate was conical instead of a square flat surface to support the rim.
Second, The Firing pin was moving too far and did not retract properly (due to NO retract spring in the original design).
Third, the Firing pin tip i sat an upward angle in the Breech Block so easily snags the side of the case rim if the rifle is tilted in closing the breech
So I also made up some 'second generation' RF cartridges out of Brass tubing, .25 Caliber PTL Blanks and some Lead .25ACP bullets.
The Rim on these new cartridges is .298" diameter .040" thick rim with a .276" Body diameter and a 1.118" case Length.
I am using Grade Three "Ramset" PTL Blanks taken from ten round plastic strips intended for "Hiltl DX35" Stud Guns.  These have been used by others as both primer and propellant in one item to send 87 to 90 grain .32 Bullets down range at about 960fps so I expect my smaller 51 grain bullets to run around 1100fps, about 'sonic' velocity.

I do recognize that he Rear Rim face of these will end up about .010' forward fo the Breech Face, near the maximum normal limit of Head Space, but their relative moderate power should allow safe use in these old firearms for which Commercial RF ammo is no longer made adn examples are Collectors Items now wiht similar high prices per round.
So far:  
Tubing is Cheap at $23.00 for five lengths of 3 feet each, yielding  32 cut 'blanks of 1.125" each in length from one 3 foot length.
Blanks at $7.65 per box of 100 in ten round Plastic Strips.
Bullets at roughly $15.00 for 500.

This is about $0.25 per round for materials plus around 15 minutes labor to make the case and load it.

Quite a bit better than the quoted $100 to $200 per box of 50 or $500 or, $5.00 per single round, plus HAZMAt shipping for Collectors.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Spent the morning in my Friends Shop using his lathe:
1.  Converted four pieces of 9/32'x.014' wall by 36" long into short sections to use as parents for my ".25 Stewart Long Reloadable Rim fire" cartridge,
2.  Trimmed the bottom of a Lee "Lube and Size Kit (.326") sizing die to allow pushing .32 S&W or similar Brass in to the Rim.  This is the first stage fo converting them to .32 Long Colt brass.
3.  Tapped two Blank Shell Holders to take 3/8-24 Bolts to make custom height shell holders to work with a Collet Crimp Die for various lengths of .32 brass of .317" diameter for replacements for the various .32 Rim Fire cartridges.
4.  Trimmed the broken end of a Cleaning Rod to allow easier use. the 'swivel end' failed so i will need to make a fixed handle later.

Now I have the tubing sections to size and trim next.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

Added 2014AUG18: over the weekend I sized 129 pieces of 9/32" x .014"Wall x 1.25" Brass "Hobby" Tubing down by running them through a .25ACP Lee Carbide Sizing die with my cut down sizing punch.  12 pieces extruded 'skirts' in the process.  This is Acceptable 'loss' but not Good so I will need to machine the second 'punch' for a closer fit to my Carbide Die bore.
Now comes the tedious part, I need to remove burrs and trim the pieces to correct length for my use as Blank Adapters between .25 RF PTL Blanks and .25 Stevens RF Chambers.  I have tried Grade 3 PTL Blanks for function and i have Grades 2, 3, 4, and 5 available for my experiments in .25 Caliber.

NOTE: the .25 Stevens is about the same diameter as a .25ACP round, the rim diameters are different and of course the ignition type is different.

I have also made replacements as CF ignition by down sizing .22 Hornet through a .25ACP die and also have made .22RF Blank to .25 Stevens adapters by reaming some of the 'down sized' Hornet CF cases with a .22 Match Grade 'FreeLand' chamber Reamer.  I made an enlarged RF Rim Rebate in the Adapters using a #8 Cap Screw Counterbore so the .22 RF positioned firing pin would clear the inside edge of the rebate.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I completed Trimming some of the Tubing to length and assembled a pair of 'test' cartridges using a Grade 4 .25 Caliber PTL blank and a 63 grain .258" diameter RFN Lead Bullet.
I pressed the Blank in one end of a trimmed tube and, after belling the other end, seated the bullet using a .25ACP seat/crimp die.
I did run the case in far enough to crimp the case tube to  the bullet just at the 'crimp groove' in the bullet.

Wednesday I took the test cartridges to my Gunsmith's shop and we temporarily assembled my strengthened pivots 1894 Stevens Action to a 'way to much head space old Stevens '.25 Stevens' Barrel.  It ended up with about .080" head space form breech face to cartridge end when seated in the barrel.

This is a deliberate test to see if the tubing is suitable for continued use as a cartridge case.

The Cartridge was fired successfully.
The Blank moved back in the tube as both moved back in the chamber toward the Breech face.
The 'unsupported' blank body just forward of the original rim 'ballooned' out to form a second 'rim'.
The original Rim 'Ballooned out until it formed a "T" shaped vent hole in the upper section.
The Bullet exited the barrel.
The Fired tube case showed expansion to fit the Chamber, growing from a .274" OD before firing to a .282" OD after firing.
The Blank end had a slight 'Bell' to it.
The Bullet end still had the Crimp in it, so the bullet left with a reduced diameter 'heel' I presume.
In spite of the Venting, my gunsmith reported a 'loud muzzle blast' or 'report' so the venting was near the end of bullet travel within the barrel.
It appears the edges of the tear 'vent' were rolled away rather than bit being torn off.
No detectable damage was found in the 1894 Stevens Action, the Breech Block face is still perpendicular to the Barrel center line and at the same distance from breech face to Rear face of Receiver Barrel Socket, pivots are still straight and linkage is tight.

Conclusions:
The Tubing is adequate for use as an Adapter Case between .25 Cal PTL Blanks (of nominal .248" OD) to .25 Stevens rifle chambers ( the original cartridge was .276" diameter and the worn chambers about .283" to 284" diameter).
The tubing either should not be crimped to the bullet OR the tubing 'neck should be reamed to reduce the .014" wall to something around .008" to .009" thickness.
The Blank's wall failed rather than the tubing wall, and at that only after being greatly distorted due to the excess head space of the experiment.
Normal Head space provisions would most likely not have caused the blank rim to fail as it did in this experiment, since the Blank moved to the rear far enough so that the original rim was completely outside the design chamber rim rebate.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

While perusing "The Handloaers manual of Cartridge Conversins" I ran across the ".25-10 Halsted" also listed as ".25-10 Center Fire and .25 Stevens Center Fire.

This cartridge is made From a .22 Hornet by sizing and forming, trimming the rim to .333" x.050" to match the published 25 Stevens sizes, with a case length of 1.125" and using SP or SR primers.
Willard Halsted, as paraphrased by the Books Authors, claims that 2.5 grains of UNIQUE will send a 67 grain, .257" diameter downrange at 1156fps.

 NOTE: the nominal Groove Diameter for a .25 Stevens RF is .250" with a nominal tolerance of +.004"/-.001" from what I have read elsewhere.  Winchester and Colt used the ".25-10" designation for any of their firearms ordered chambered for the ".25 Stevens RF" Cartridge.

Sounds like I have been been busy, with my .22 hornet conversions, 'Reinventing the Wheel' so to speak.

At least this shows I was following others in wanting to make this caliber easily shootable again.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

This Afternoon, Wednesday August 27th, I got a call form my gunsmith to come and pick up the Strengthened 1894 Stevens Favorite Action and two Stevens ".25 Stevens Long RF" barrels that he had ready for my Range testing.  So i went in, paid $75.00 for the work, took the Action and two barrels home, fitted a Stock to the action. packed up the now complete rifle action and barrels with  some of my 'First and Second Generation' Reloadable Rim fire cartridges, and off to the 'Angeles Shooting Ranges' for a session of testing.  

It did not go well.

Every Cartridge was difficult to extract as the Action extractor would NOT hold the rim available on the cartridges.

I had numerous "light Firing Pin Strikes" when attempting to fire cartridges of both designs.

Two Cartridges that did fire resulted in the case stuck in the chamber (one in each of the two barrels) and the fired blank case came out of the case without releasing the case.

One stuck Case body did come out with a Cleaning rod inserted from the muzzle, but the other did not.  In both cases the 'blank' did move back and vent to the outside due to rim failures.  This is NOT Good Results but I have not yet dissected the the failures nor cleaned the two barrels as the outing also resulted in a Vehicle Start failure that took more physical Effort than I should have exerted to get it started, so I got myself home and went to bed for a time of recovery.  it is now after 2300 hours PDT as I type this 'interim Report'.  I will get the rifle and barrels out of the vehicle Tomorrow morning and do the clean up, etc.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

Added 20140828 0830PDT: Started cleaning the two barrels and the 1894 Action this morning and observed that the barrels do NOT appear to be Head Spaced correctly.

Barrel #1 has a gap between Breech Block and Barrel rear face of about .025" PLUS a Rim Rebate depth of .057". The Rim of the .25 Stevens Long Rim Fire cartridge is between .045" and .050" thick. My 'First and Second Generation' Reloadable Rim Fire designs have a rim Thickness of .040" to .043" so the effective Head Space for Barrel #1 is between .030" and .040" from fully seated Rim in the Rebate to the front of the Breech face. or, measured from Breech face to front of Rebate, about .080". this is probably why I had 'Light Firing Pin Strikes' and rim 'blowout Venting' experiences with this barrel.

Barrel #2 has a Gap of about .040" between barrel rear face and the Breech Block Face when seated in the action. The Rebate is not measurable as there is still a Case body stuck in the Chamber, which interferes with the measurement.
BUT .040" is WAY TOO MUCH gap!

The Breech Face is square and parallel to the Barrel so it appears NOT to have been damaged by the 'Blowouts'.

I will be taking this action and barrels back to my Gunsmith Today for his review and corrective action.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Now I wait for the gunsmith to reviw the Action and two barrels to find out why there is about .040" space from end of barrel to front of Breech Face while the Breech face is still perpendicular to the barrel bore center line.  

In the mean time the Labor Day Weekend is upon us so little actual 'work' will be done as we all go out and "play" for the holiday.
I bet we all do more strenuous 'play' on a three day weekend than many of us do at a full 40hour a week job, just the nature of most work these days.

But think if you will of what our ancestors had to do to earn their livings and how far we have come in moderating the working conditions and improving the "Quality of Life' by reducing fatigue on the job from 12 hour 'work days' and $1.00 a day pay scales.

Also, think of those in other countries still working for these same low pay and in similar working conditions of the early past Century.
Such as the Workers who are locked in to their workrooms for the full shift, however long it is, and are trapped if the building fails for any reason.

Yes, we in the United States now 'have it good' because of the efforts of past workers to gain improved working conditions and pay and have improved the productivity of the US workforce in return.

Happy Labor Day All.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

The last few weeks have been debilitatingly hot/humid here and any progress son my projects has been slowed considerably.

In spite of that some things have been accomplished to move the occasional project incrementally forward.

My 'modified' 1915 Stevens Favorite action with the oversize Breech Block is gettin gcloser to completion.   I still need a firing pin and retainer for it.  The buttstock is fitted and has a steel buttplate sandwiched between the stock and a Stevens Reproduction Favorite buttplate.

My Stevens Model 12 Marksman "Basket case" is now assembled with a missing 'cocking rod' and return spring and a nearly 'stripped' Lever Pivot shoulder screw.  I stil do not have a barrel fitted to it and have only a damaged/broken/Bubba-repaired buttstock and Buttplate attached to it.

The Two 1894 actions at my Gunsmith's shop are still slowly getting closer to use, on ehas been test fired twice and is getting problems resolved, the second one is still short some screws.

The Stevens 44 Action is waiting for the 1894 actions to be completed before being submitted to my gunsmith to have the NOS Breech Block fitting completed.  I want an experienced Gunsmith to do the final fitting so it will be 'tight' for a long life in the action.  presently I have a close fitting pivot pin that is matched to the reamed holes in Receiver and Breech Block so the rear fo the BB interferes with the rear slot shoulders.
This Action has a used Very Nice "Paul Shuttleworth" Buttstock with Buttplate all ready for it.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

ADDED 2014SEP28:  The Hot/Humid weather has moderated slightly here so I have been slightly more active the last week.  The First 'putter project' was to plan and begin fabrication of a firing pin for a 'modified' 1915 Stevens Favorite Action I have.  It was reworked by a previous owner with a new machined Breech Block and enlarged replacements for the Breech Block and Lever pivot screws.  The new BB has a firing pin bore that is larger than standard Stevens Favorite size and the Breech end is Bushing with a roughly .080" hole for the Tip.  I found a hardened pin of suitable diameter that had a 'knurled' end so it would jam inot the bore if driven in which I needed to remove so I went to my Friends Shop and sued carbide tipped tooling to turn it down , then center drill the end and bore it out to take a 5/64" diameter by 1/2" long Dowel pin with about 1/4" left exposed as the new tip.
After reviewing the tools and tooling at my friends shop, I took the partially completed pin and the BB to my gunsmith to have the retainer pin relief cut in the side.  He said it should be ready for pick up about October 1st.

Friday evening I took Joe Mueller, the owner of "Hollywood Engineering", to an Antique Firearms Club meeting and took along some of my Stevens Actions to "show and tell".  Afterward I began thinking about one of the other "abused" Stevens Receivers I have purchased, a model 44 one that had a 'sighting groove' cut into the top of the Barrel Spigot 'bridge' and the pivot pin/screw holes 'buggered' and is coated with rust pits and areas of old rust.  
Saturday morning I started trying to get the remainder fo the two plug Screws, for the tang sight mount, out; soaking them with "Kroil penetration oil" all day and over night.  Sunday they are still too tight to remove, I broke the replaceable tip for my screw driver that fits them, so some more soaking is happening and I have 'resharpened' the tip.

The gunsmith also told me that the 1894 Favorite BB and Lever pivot screws in my receiver had not been heat treated after manufacture so had bent in test firing, so he is making new ones out of higher grade alloy steel that will be hardened and tempered before he returns the action for further test firing.

Sunday I think I am going to take the Receiver to my friends shop and try his large, fine wire brush wheel on the rusted surfaces that it can reach.  I will most likely see if I can find a Glass Casserole dish of the correct dimensions to allow me to soak the Receiver in to remove the rust from surfaces not reachable by the wire wheel(s).
Since this Receiver is already surface deteriorated and has been grooved, it is a good candidate for my practice in surface preparations.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

ADDED 2014OCT03:  I did try the power wire brush and it did take off the surface rust on the Receiver, but I find that the full surface is covered with a pattern of pits that would require a LOT of abrasion to remove so I do not think this receiver is a candidate for a 'mirror polish job', probably a powder blasted satin finish would work though.  It is currently soaking in penetrating oil before trying to remove the two plug screws used to fill the Tang sight mount holes.
Future work will involve removing rust and Crud from the interior surfaces, 'chasing the pivot pin holes and threads to clean up them and to see how much of the original threads remain.

The 'modified 1915 Stevens Favorite' firing pin was replaced by my gunsmith after accidentally cutting the retainer pin groove too close to the 'hammer' end.  He left it long on both ends so I could fit it for proper tip exposure and trim the 'hammer' end to fit the action needs.
This has now been done so I may need to take it back for hardening and tempering.
Next will be getting a barrel set up for this action.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

ADDED 2014OCT04:  This afternoon after it cooled off slightly from the day's peak temperature, I wen to my Friend's Shop and used his lathe to cut a "Stevens Favorite" Tenon onto a used 'Marlin' 22 S-L-LR barrel I purchased off of "Ebay".  This tenon is about .663" diameter and is long enough to allow for proper head spacing and extractor cut to be done by my gunsmith.  It is now 'Short Chambered' by the amount I trimmed the breech end to square it up.  I will have him use my ".22LR Match Grade Freeland Chamber finish reamer to bring the chamber to size and length.  This "Modified 1915 Stevens Favorite" action is getting close to test firing now.  My gunsmith will also need to harden and temper the Firing pin for me otherwise it will have short operating life (it is dead soft at the moment).  Best regards, Chev. William.

[Chev. William]

Saturday, October 25th, I received back two of my .25 Stevens Barrels from my Gunsmith after reworking for proper Head space and recut of the Chamber to properly fit the Cartridges I am using.  This means that .25ACP or .25 PTL Blank Rims are properly supported in the Rim Relief.  My resized .22 Hornet to .25 Stevens cases with the original hornet diameter rims do NOT fit; so I will need to 'adjust' their rim diameters down to fit.

The action to which they were fitted is still with the gunsmith as he still needs to make the Strengthened Pivot screws, cut from Grade 8 1/4 inch diameter bolts, and assure they are properly case hardened for wear resistance after machining also.

This action is a Stevens 1894 Favorite which was rusted and has been powder blasted to give it a uniform satin surface until we are finished with the testing and fitting, then will receive some sort of finish to be determined later.

The second 1894 Action he is holding still has faint 'case colors' on it so will not be refinished but WILL be fitted with strengthened pivot Screws.

A Third Stevens Favorite, a 'modified 1915' with a wider than typical Breech block (about .600 inch wide) is waiting for the replacement firing pin to be properly Heat Treated for long term reliable use. and a .22LR barrel final fitted to it, with a set of new replacement extractors to be tuned for .22LR, .25ACP, .25 Stevens, and .32 Long cartridge extraction.  The barrels for which will be chosen and fitted later.

The gunsmith also has my Stevens 'Model 12' Marksman Action for fitting a new .22LR Barrel (done) and a replacement for the pin and spring used to move teh Hammer from 'fired' to 'half cock' when the action lever is first moved out of locked position.

So some progress is happening on my projects again. YEA!

I also bought two 100 case bags of PPU made .22 Hornet Brass so I have some more 'putter work to do while waiting for my actions to be completed.  Another used Stevens Barrel has also been purchased and received, a .25 Stevens for a 'model 44' action.  It is externally pitted and internally 'crudded up' but has both front and rear original sights on it.  Cleaning will need to be done before a Bore/Rifling condition assessment can be made.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Saturday, November 8th, I received back two fo my "projects" and three .32 Long Chambered barrels form my gunsmith:

The First project is a Stevens Model 12 Marksman "Kit" that needed a .22 RF re-purposed Barrel fitted to the action and a replacement "cocking pin" fitted to the action.

The Second project is a Stevens 1894 Favorite Action that is fitted with "Hardened Gunsmith Screws"  to replace the soft originals.  It is also fitted with a re-purposed .22RF Barrel.

The Three Stevens .32 Long Barrels were head spaced to match a modified Stevens 1915 Favorite action which is still with the gunsmith to have its firing pin Heat treated and a set of extractors (for .22RF, .25ACP, .25 Stevens, and .32 Long cartridges) fitted to it.

All in all i feel this is good progress on my projects.

Also I have been gathering bits and pieces to put together a Side Extractor Stevens model 44 action and now need to get an aftermarket extractor along with possibly some 'proper' springs for it.  I have temporarily assembled what I have suing 1894 main and Trigger springs to add tensions to the parts.

I bought another two bags of PPU .22 Hornet empty brass to convert to .25 Stevens adn .25ACP Lengthened case 'Mildcat' Brass.  This makes 400 cases to be reformed to .25 Stevens diameters and have the rims reworked to either .25ACP or .25 Stevens dimensions.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

JOY!  The Side extractor 'blank' for my Model 44 Side Extractor Version Arrived from Wisner's and after filing the bend area smooth it fit my action, now it needs to be cut to fit a cartridge.  I also ordered two more of this part, number 12-1-S, so I can have interchangeable caliber barrels and extractors to fit the Action.

Also this last Thursday I took the Marksman and 1894 with the replacement barrels to the Range for test Firing, then back to the Gunsmith for touch up of minor problems.  At the same time I picked up my 'modified' 1915 Favorite with all it various fitted extractors for different calibers.  The .25ACP along with a .25 Stevens Barrel were in it at time of pickup and trials with a .25ACP case showed it extracts properly.  I hope to take it to the Range for test firing next Thursday (The Half Price Day) but will need to make up some .25ACP Blank Adapter cases first.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

Added 2014NOV26:  I received the two Wisner's parts and now all three have been filed smooth where the bend is and then stamped with this receiver's serial number and the intended Cartridge of fit.  Also I checked with my gunsmith and there may not be any progress on my projects until February next year due to his going on a Location Movie Shoot out of State (he and his Wife's major Income generator).  Oh well 'The good book' says Patience is a Virtue.  Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Still have not gotten to the Range to test the Modified 1915 Action/.25 Stevens Rifle.  And now it is raining here.

End of a Nice Thanksgiving weekend as I will NOT need to water the Lawns, saving water in the current drought.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

More Rains on Thursdays both in the last few weeks and now forecast for this Week again.  Oh Well, the Rain is Needed Here, and it saves me from watering the lawns and Shrubs/Trees again this week.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Another Rainy Monday-Tuesday-Wednesday here; which means I don't need to water the plantings again this week, so I save on costs of Water in this 'Drought' cycle.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

Added 20141220:  I think I am hoping for 1000" of Wet Snow pack on the Owens Valley Watershed by April of 1015 measurement date. that would refill the Reservoirs of the Owens Valley/Mulholand Aqueduct system feeding the San Fernando Valley and leave enough to bring the levels of Mono and Owens Lakes up considerably.  Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Merry Christmas To ALL, and you all enjoy a SAFE Happy New Year.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Evil Ed]

Just finished reading the entire thread and wanted to say thanks for sharing.I recently picked up a falling block by National Firearms Company in 32rf and in the process of getting it speaking again.

[Chev. William]

Just finished reading the entire thread and wanted to say thanks for sharing.I recently picked up a falling block by National Firearms Company in 32rf and in the process of getting it speaking again.

A 'new' Rifle in .32RF?  Please provide more details about the rifle and the Company.
Curious minds need to know.
Welcome to the Forum and the Thread.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Just finished reading the entire thread and wanted to say thanks for sharing.I recently picked up a falling block by National Firearms Company in 32rf and in the process of getting it speaking again.

How about more details or a Progress Report?
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I received two of my Rifles back from my gunsmith today, one of which was a Stevens 1894 Type Favorite in 22RF with a Reused barrel (a 'take off' purchase off of Ebay).  Now I need to get money and time to go to a Commercial Range to test fire the rifle for myself.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Things go S-l-o-w-l-y when money is Tight.  Last week My gunsmith asked me to stop by his shop and to bring my 'bit and pieces' to confer over work to be done; both on the actions, barrels, and Breech blocks he has at the Shop and on my other actions waiting for his time.
He now has better notes on the work to be done and more in hand waiting for Time.
Now i get to 'putter' at home with some partial actions I am still gathering parts for and working on converting cases to fit.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Still 'limping along on Fixed Income while Government Taxes and Fees keep going up along with Food, Fuel, utility costs.
No Work Calls from my Union Dispatcher so far this year, so no Discretionary Spending Funds yet.

My Dogs needed a Vet Call this month so Dollars were Spent.

Best Regards,
Chev. William