.32 Long Colt ,Need Help

[Adirondacker]

There was a nice Ideal .32 Colt loading tool on Ebay that sold last night for $232.50.  Too rich for my blood.  Did any of you guys pick it up?  

Jaw-dropping.  For a cartridge as obscure as this one, I'd have guessed $75 or so would have been BIG money.  The seller probably went into shock.

But look at this Ideal tool, # 141030386759, which sold for $36.  Marked "32 Colts, Marlin, Win."  Is that the same tool?

[ndnchf]

But look at this Ideal tool, # 141030386759, which sold for $36.  Marked "32 Colts, Marlin, Win."  Is that the same tool?

I think that's the same as the one I picked up recently and discussed here:
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,49856.0.html

Its actually a .32-20.

[Adirondacker]

I think that's the same as the one I picked up recently and discussed here:
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,49856.0.html

Its actually a .32-20.

Thanks, I forgot that--all the complications of reaming & swaging & turning these cases is making my head spin. 

[Chev. William]

I broke down and ordered Custom Forster Trimmer pilots to match the .25 Stevens and the .32 Long colt case mouths.  Teh Customer Service person had not heard of the Calibers before, and none of the 'catalog' sizes matched.
Oh well, just another minor 'glitch' to getting shootable rifles back in action.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Today I posted a "Wanted" Classified add on CAS City in an attempt to find a commercial Supplier of Accurate Mold design #31-090A or similar heeled inside lubed .32 Long Colt Cast Lead Bullets.  If anyone knows of such a source please respond to the add.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

ndnchf,
RE: your post of October 12th on the case sizing dies and your initial use.

I had the same problem with the shell holder keeping the case from fully entering a 'sizing' die when reforming .22 Hornet brass to .25 Stevens sizes, and my solution also ended up with the 'roll' of brass above the rim, but I am able to do the 'sizing' in my reloading press using The "RCBS Primer Pocket Swageing tool Kit" and a 3/16 I.D. Fender washer.
My set up uses the small pocket swage punch, the stripper cup, and then the fender washer in a stack on the ram. the case is placed on the 'nub' of the swage punch and run up into the 'reforming' die a little at a time using the top of the ram travel "toggle action' to get the needed force.  Of course this means I 'adjust the Die' downwards in about 1/12th to 1/6th turn increments to get the case all the way in to the rim.

Added 2014AUG19: The Press I originally used is a RCBS "JR-3" and was of the 'small ram and 7/8-14 thread type so Took a LOT of force to push case into resizing die where the Base Web starts.   I now have a RCBS "RC" press with a new "Ammomaster 2" handle, which add about 4" in length of lever AND a Ball Shaped handle at the end.  Greatly reduced effort as i thas a Large Ram and the Bigger Die thread with a reducer bushing to 7/8-14 size Threaded dies.  I find i can push a .22 Hornet into a .25ACP Carbide sizing die all the way to the rim in one Stroke using only my upper body and a two armed grip while remaining seated.  A trial run of .327 Federal Magnum cases down sizing in two stages to .318" Diameter took one cycle of the press fo reach die used and still the Seated Upper Body force applied with a two hand grip.  Chev. William

Once the case is fully entered into the die, I use a hardened pin and light hammer taps to drive it back out the bottom while the die is still in the press.
With the 'spacer' fender washer used, the case primer pocket is not swaged out other than a small radius champfer at the moth of the pocket which is visible if you compare a unmodified case pocket to one of the modified ones.

As I do not own a large arbor press, and my bench mount drill press is not strong enough to use for this forming process, this is the way I found to do the case forming I needed to perform so far.

Your use of a Needle File to 'trim' the roll of brass is something I did not think of, I will need to try it on the next batch of cases I form.

A problem I have noticed in reforming Hornet Brass to .25 Stevens is that the cases, in the forming process, are not well supported in the forming die and sometimes come out with a 'curved body' that I need to work back to straight with a 'expander punch and multiple insert and remove cycles while rotating the case until it is a straight cylinder again.  This is probably due to my working with the Hornet brass at full length and trimming to length after all the forming is done.  I have not tried the 'Trim then Form' method yet but It seems the 'bottleneck design does not lend itself to radical trimming before forming.  

Am I thinking correctly on this?
My dogs are clamoring to go 'out' so I will close for the moment.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I ran some of the 299153 bullets through a .308 Lee Push Through Sizer die then loaded some in Full .930" length cases, with 2.3 grains of Bullseye and a WSP primer.  I then put them through the OWM Crimp Die and checked the crimp position and shape.  They are crimping at roughly .912" and the crimp as formed gives a 'rounded' appearance to the crimp in that the mouth of these long cases is still at the original diameter, then the crimp imposes a radius to meet the crimp minimum diameter which has a radius surface then another radius out to the case body diameter again.  I believe if the cases were shortened to the .912" length the crimp would have been sharp at the rim and only have the radius coming out of the crimp to the body diameter.  I did not change the setting as received as OWM notes that it was "set to crimp .32 Long Colt" case.  

After crimping I ran them through my Sizer die to assure they were within my chamber diameter and tried them in my .32 long barrel.  I again found the loaded rounds too long to seat so, again ran them into the seating die and 'swaged the nose, then the first driving band down to bore diameter, leaving one driving band at the over groove diameter.  The resulting loaded cartridges have a 'long' nose appearance with a near bore riding diameter then the driving band that is about halfway between bore and case body diameter then the case starts.  Overall length is more than listed for normal .32 Long Colt rounds so I guess these will be dubbed ".32 Long Colt 'Rifle' " as I do not think they would fit the cylinder of an actual .32 Long colt Revolver.

I am Still looking for a commercial supplier for the Accurate Mold #31-090A bullets.

This is an interim trial with the bullets I have on hand.

This Saturday I will be able to take possession of the Stevens 1915 Favorite action I bought off the internet as the California ten day waiting period is over.   The Action is 'in the White' and 'polished with 320 grit' as purchased.  Since my Gunsmith is going to be busy with Movie Contracts until late November or Early December so far, I am going to bring this Action home and 'play with in-letting a rough precut butt stock to fit it to keep me busy for a while.  This will be my first foray into stocking an action so please wish me luck.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I now have the "in the White' Stevens 1915 Favorite Action in my possession.
It will need further polishing as there are some shipping or handling 'scratches' on both sides, and
There will probably be other before I get the Butt stock fitted to it, a Barrel fitted, then a Forearm on the barrel.
First things first though, and the Butt stock is in hand but the Barrel and Forearm are still to be obtained/selected.

I have a partially shaped butt stock I also bought through Ebay. and the two 'nearly' fit each other.
'Nearly' means I have a 'bit ' of final fitting and shaving before the action will  fit the existing tang cuts, etc.
The butt stock is Walnut, possibly Black Walnut, with a reasonably plain straight grain with a small tight 'knot' on the right side.

I think this action is a god candidate for a .30 Caliber barrel, probably chambered for the .32 Long Colt because I have mostly all I need to load for it.  
This will allow me to build up my two 1894 series as .25 Stevens, converted to CF, and .250ALRM calibers.
Much better fit for the action's strength capabilities.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[ndnchf]

Chev - sorry I didn't post sooner.  I've been out of town for the weekend.  Your method of swaging down cases sounds as good as any.  I use a Lee turret press and its just not stout enough for pressing the last 1/8" where the solid head is most difficult.  The arbor press works well for me and I can also use a rod to press the case out of the die rather than hammer it out. Thanks for the crimp die report. I ordered mine last week.  Since my cases are .775" long, I'll need to adjust mine before I start.

[Chev. William]

Chev - sorry I didn't post sooner.  I've been out of town for the weekend.  Your method of swaging down cases sounds as good as any.  I use a Lee turret press and its just not stout enough for pressing the last 1/8" where the solid head is most difficult.  The arbor press works well for me and I can also use a rod to press the case out of the die rather than hammer it out. Thanks for the crimp die report. I ordered mine last week.  Since my cases are .775" long, I'll need to adjust mine before I start.

If you Ask OWM, they may set your crimp die holder to match your case length.

The RCBS press i have is an old "JR-3" full 'O' with the single link from handle pivot bar to Ram, and it is temporary mounted on a 1" thick laminated Marine Plywood (two pieces of 1/2" Marine Ply glued and screwed together) folding table with two "C" Clamps.  when I work the case reforming of the bases, I use th elast little travel as the rm reaches the top of travel and the linkage 'toggles' over.  This works the case up into the die in 1/12th turn increments of the 7/8-14 die thread.

i can understand the limitation of a turret press in general, however I have seen some that would reform cases with ease (A Hollywood Engineering, H.E., one set up to re-load 20mm cases in particular).  More typical revolver and small rifle size turret presses would not have the flex resistance to handle the peak forces I guess.  There are also advertized 'Bullet Swageing Presses' that are claimed to be much more 'robust' than typical re-loading  presses.

This weekend I have been 'tumbling' H.E. die clamp rings to see if they can be cleaned up for future sale.  So far I believe they will clean up well and end with a 'heat blue' finish.  Most of what I am tumbling off them is melted plastic and roof melted residue.  The 'work' is changing my Crushed Walnut media from tan to dark grey in just two days use, and I still have two more loads to run through my Frankford Vibratory Tumbler.  This is volunteer work to help the owner recover from his shop fire by seeing how much of his inventory of finished or mostly finished parts may be salvaged for sale.  He is clearing out the building at the order of L.A. Dept. fo Building and Safety inspectors under threat of fines if he is not done within 30 days of the fire.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Today is a Good Day,
My latest Ebay purchased Stevens barrel arrived and this one is a "keeper". it has about 90-95% thin blue all over, including the Tenon; the bore looks shiny and the rifling is all present with no obvious pits.  I slugged it and the measurements are .245" Bore and .251 Groove diameters and tight all the way from chamber to muzzle which is cut square and flat.  It is marked "25-Stevens" and the chamber seems to be just that, one of my .250ALS cartridges goes in nicely all the way to flush with the breech face.
It does have 'ghost' double stamping of the "J. Stevens A & T Co." name and address but the caliber stamping is single strike and sharp.
The Tenon seems to measure .662" near the fr0nt and .660" to .661" at the breech face.  the Rim cut is clean and sharp and the extractor cut is also clean and sharp.
The rear dovetail has slightly raised lips and the front dovetail lips are either flush or very close to it.  All in all, I am very pleased with this 1894 series 22" long Half Octagon-Half round barrel.
Next I will be looking out for sights for it.
Best regards,
Chev. William

[dusty texian]

Making .32 Long Colt from .32 S&W Long

Previously in this thread you may recall some comments about dies that Dusty Texian (DT) was making for me.  I didn't really say what we were doing, so now it's time to explain.  After lamenting the fact that I didn't have a way to size my fired .32 LC brass, DT offered to make me a sizing die.  His generous offer was quickly accepted.  After careful measuring it was determined that a case mouth diameter of .316" was best for my chamber.  While this was going on, we discussed the swaged down .32 S&W to .32 LC brass offered by Jack Harrison.  The next thing I know, DT says he's also making a die to swage down the .32 S&W Long brass – very cool!  So yesterday I get a package from DT containing two of the most beautiful dies I've ever seen.  One marked .322" and the other .316".  They are used in a two step process to size the .32 S&W brass down to .32LC.



On the right is a new Starline case that has been run through the .322" die next to a standard .32 S&W.  There is a distinct point at the bottom were the shell holder prevented the case from entering any further.  



So I took the die and case, and set it in an arbor press and pressed the case in all the way up to the rim.



Now it is sized all the way to the rim.  I repeated the sizing process using the .316" die.  But there is a small roll of displaced brass in front of the rim.  Also, the solid case head area in front of the rim has sprung back a little.  The case will almost chamber in my rifle, but not quite.

 

So I put the case in a chuck and spin it, and use a needle file to remove the displaced brass and reduce the head diameter to about .319".  Then polish the head area with some 400 grit.  Now the case fits the chamber perfectly!  DT's dies worked great, just as he designed them to do.  

But then I ran into a problem with the seated Lyman 299153 bullet.  The original .32LC case wall thickness at the mouth is .008".   The new Starline .32S&W wall thickness is .012".  So when I seated the .299" bullet heel into the case, the mouth expanded to the point where the round will not chamber.  It is .008" larger in diameter at the mouth than the same bullet loaded in an original .32LC case.  Hmmm, now what to do?  I have a set of small adjustable reamers, so I selected  one and adjusted it to ream to .299".  I didn't have a good way to hold the case and reamer in alignment, I just did it by hand, so the reaming is a little sloppy.  But after this, I resized the case and the bullet seated easily and the round chambered in my rifle.  Hand reaming is not the solution, but it worked to make a sample.  The way to proceed is to order a custom ground inside neck reamer from Forster and use my Forster trimmer to ream.  This holds everything firmly in alignment and works very well.



A big thank you to Dusty Texian for making these beautiful dies.  Once I get the neck reamer, I'll be able to make plenty of new brass and resize it after firing.    

Thank's for the kind words ndnchf,and I hope the die's work for you. The credit for the beauty of these die's must go to the good folk at PTG. I ordered the blank die body from them then reammed the blank's to the dim. you ask for, and added the locking ring's.Sound's like you have a method worked out to make a case that will fit your chamber . The die that I reammed .316  and to a depth of .785 + - is the only die I tested.I ran a .32 LC case that had been fired in my 92 Marlin chamber many times the case mouth was OD. ,,,. 321 the die marked .316 sized this case down very easy in my Rock Chucker.I ran a fired .32 lc case with .321 case mouth OD. and .920 case lenth ,to see what the case would look like upon engaging with the bevel at sizing chamber stop. The case was lubed and was ran in to the end of die chamber . When remover it had a very nice roll crimp. The remaining through bore could be counter bored to allow your bullet to enter this area and then stop the case mouth giving the case a roll crimp. If you wanted it. I have been seating my bullet's without a crimp and getting good fit by controlling case neck wall thickness x bullet heel. w44wcf have you had a chance to try your new bullet design ? Sound's like it will be a good one. Chev. William I did not think anyone had more iron's in the fire than me. Look's like you may. Your project's are very interesting and I hope you keep us posted. I may not be able to post a reply at time's but do enjoy keeping up on progress from all my Pard's here . Keep Your Powder Dry,,,,,,Dusty

[Chev. William]

"Chev. William I did not think anyone had more iron's in the fire than me. Look's like you may. Your project's are very interesting and I hope you keep us posted. I may not be able to post a reply at time's but do enjoy keeping up on progress from all my Pard's here . Keep Your Powder Dry,,,,,,Dusty"

Dusty, Thank you for your kind comments, I will try to try to both 'keep you posted' and 'keep my powder dry'.

A few questions:  The blank dies you ordered form PTG, were they heat treated as received?
What did you use to ream them to size?
Did you 'lap',or polish, the interior after reaming?
Did you further heat treat them after reaming?

I am curious about the process as I would like to get some forming dies to rework the .32 S&W / H&R Mag. /.327 Fed.  cases, to .32 Long Colt diameters.  I feel this would improve my chances of finding 'donor' cases at low cost.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Adirondacker]

I continue to be AMAZED by the prices paid on ebay for Ideal tong tools.  I bid about $50 for a 310 tool in 32 S&W that I thought would be useful for neck-sizing.  Now, how many folks do you know who actually shoot, & reload, this cartridge?  It just sold for $102 + $10 shipping!

For the few, like me, actually shooting this cartridge, a set of modern dies such as the Hornadys I use do a better, faster, job of reloading.  So, is it just collectors who are bidding prices so high?

[dusty texian]

"Chev. William I did not think anyone had more iron's in the fire than me. Look's like you may. Your project's are very interesting and I hope you keep us posted. I may not be able to post a reply at time's but do enjoy keeping up on progress from all my Pard's here . Keep Your Powder Dry,,,,,,Dusty"

Dusty, Thank you for your kind comments, I will try to try to both 'keep you posted' and 'keep my powder dry'.

A few questions:  The blank dies you ordered form PTG, were they heat treated as received?
What did you use to ram them to size?
Did you 'lap' the interior after reaming?
Did you further heat treat them after reaming?

I am curious about the process as I would like to get some forming dies to rework the .32 S&W / H&R Mag. /.327 Fed.  cases, to .32 Long Colt diameters.  I feel this would improve my chances of finding 'donor' cases at low cost.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

Hey Chev. The truth is I do not know if the die blank's from PTG  have been hardened . I did not harden them. I did drill these die's just under size then used a chucking reamer in my lathe, for the final size, drilling and reaming the die blank's I could tell they seemed to be very high quality steel.  I used 600 grit paper on a burnishing dowel  soaked in my favorite oil concotion that I make for such things. After looking at the pic's that ndnchf ,posted of the brass he has ran . Look's like I could have spent more time polishing ,after reaming.Hey Addirondacker , I think ndnchf is buying up all the .32 cal. tong tool's and driving the market price up. I'm on to him . Just pulling his chain,,,,,Dusty

[ndnchf]

I think ndnchf is buying up all the .32 cal. tong tool's and driving the market price up. I'm on to him . Just pulling his chain,,,,,Dusty

Ssshhhhh, I thought that was my secret 

Actually, I've picked up a couple .32 tong tools, but not the one I want.  I have two .32-WCFs and one .32 S&W.  But I wasn't about to shell out a couple hundred bucks for that .32 Long Colt tool that sold last week.. Especially since I have Dusty's beautful dies to work with now.  And, BTW they are highly polished inside.  I think the camera's macro lense makes the cases look worse than they really are.  I'm waiting on the neck reamer and collet crimp dies to arrive.  Then I can finish and load them up. 

[dusty texian]

Sound's really good. Should turn out some great ammo.Sound's like it's time for a 32-20 1873 Winchester.Did that a while back. Bought a 40-60wcf loading tong ,then ended up with two 1876 Winchester's cause I already had the tool. Sounded good.Dont know if she believed me.,,,,,,Dusty

[ndnchf]

My thought exactly!  Not much point in having a .32-20 loading tool without a rifle to go with it.  But first I need to get loading gear for my .58 cal rolling block.  That's a BIG cartridge.  I'd like to find a tong tool for that one, but I imagine they are pretty hard to come by...

[Chev. William]

I continue to be AMAZED by the prices paid on ebay for Ideal tong tools.  I bid about $50 for a 310 tool in 32 S&W that I thought would be useful for neck-sizing.  Now, how many folks do you know who actually shoot, & reload, this cartridge?  It just sold for $102 + $10 shipping!

For the few, like me, actually shooting this cartridge, a set of modern dies such as the Hornadys I use do a better, faster, job of reloading.  So, is it just collectors who are bidding prices so high?

Are you familiar with the"310 Shop"?
He carries or seems can get many calibers for the 310 tool.

Best Regards,
Chev, William

[dusty texian]

Finding a tong tool for that .58 would be a supprise,but you just never know. One may show up. Just the other day I saw a tong tool for .44 Evans ,now how rare is that one? Chev, have you ever ran across .32 LC dies for the 310. I have a 310 tong with .45 LC die's. This Winter after all the hunting I may get on the lathe and make me a set in .32 LC for my 310. That would be handy ,,,,,,Dusty