.32 Long Colt ,Need Help

[Chev. William]

I like your idea of getting filing Dies made to 'flat' the points of 22LR rounds, That's a"Good 'un".

I received the Modified Collet 'Factory Crimp Die' for .32 Colt, both the short and the long are covered as it is adjustable.  The shell holder has a Threaded stem that is held at adjustment by a set screw.  the 'kit' came in a molded box along with the Allen wrench to do the adjustments with and three different sample bullets for me to review.

All in All it looks very nicely made and is a Very Good application of ingenuity to overcome a lack of Lee's producing it in the first place,
The Crimp Die itself appears to be of Lee's manufacturer.

I will Recommend this die modification to any who wish to crimp .32 Colt cartridges.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[ndnchf]

Thanks for the report Chev.  Glad to hear it works well.  Could you post a photo of it in action?  Thanks.

[ndnchf]

Making .32 Long Colt from .32 S&W Long

Previously in this thread you may recall some comments about dies that Dusty Texian (DT) was making for me.  I didn't really say what we were doing, so now it's time to explain.  After lamenting the fact that I didn't have a way to size my fired .32 LC brass, DT offered to make me a sizing die.  His generous offer was quickly accepted.  After careful measuring it was determined that a case mouth diameter of .316" was best for my chamber.  While this was going on, we discussed the swaged down .32 S&W to .32 LC brass offered by Jack Harrison.  The next thing I know, DT says he's also making a die to swage down the .32 S&W Long brass – very cool!  So yesterday I get a package from DT containing two of the most beautiful dies I've ever seen.  One marked .322" and the other .316".  They are used in a two step process to size the .32 S&W brass down to .32LC.



On the right is a new Starline case that has been run through the .322" die next to a standard .32 S&W.  There is a distinct point at the bottom were the shell holder prevented the case from entering any further. 



So I took the die and case, and set it in an arbor press and pressed the case in all the way up to the rim.



Now it is sized all the way to the rim.  I repeated the sizing process using the .316" die.  But there is a small roll of displaced brass in front of the rim.  Also, the solid case head area in front of the rim has sprung back a little.  The case will almost chamber in my rifle, but not quite.

 

So I put the case in a chuck and spin it, and use a needle file to remove the displaced brass and reduce the head diameter to about .319".  Then polish the head area with some 400 grit.  Now the case fits the chamber perfectly!  DT's dies worked great, just as he designed them to do. 

But then I ran into a problem with the seated Lyman 299153 bullet.  The original .32LC case wall thickness at the mouth is .008".   The new Starline .32S&W wall thickness is .012".  So when I seated the .299" bullet heel into the case, the mouth expanded to the point where the round will not chamber.  It is .008" larger in diameter at the mouth than the same bullet loaded in an original .32LC case.  Hmmm, now what to do?  I have a set of small adjustable reamers, so I selected  one and adjusted it to ream to .299".  I didn't have a good way to hold the case and reamer in alignment, I just did it by hand, so the reaming is a little sloppy.  But after this, I resized the case and the bullet seated easily and the round chambered in my rifle.  Hand reaming is not the solution, but it worked to make a sample.  The way to proceed is to order a custom ground inside neck reamer from Forster and use my Forster trimmer to ream.  This holds everything firmly in alignment and works very well.



A big thank you to Dusty Texian for making these beautiful dies.  Once I get the neck reamer, I'll be able to make plenty of new brass and resize it after firing.   

[Adirondacker]

I like the looks of that 32 Belted Magnum you made--an experimental cartridge that never went into production!

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

How about an OUTSIDE neck turner? They are available from RCBS, Lyman, like this;

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/case-trimmers/outside-neck-tt.php

And several others, and this one from Forster.

http://www.forsterproducts.com/catalog.asp?prodid=700562

[ndnchf]

.32 Belted magnum - Ha! Great idea ;-)

Sir Charles - I hadn't really thought about outside neck turning. I've never used them.  I do have a couple Forster inside neck reamers and am familiar with them.  Is there any advantage of one over the other?

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

.32 Belted magnum - Ha! Great idea ;-)

Sir Charles - I hadn't really thought about outside neck turning. I've never used them.  I do have a couple Forster inside neck reamers and am familiar with them.  Is there any advantage of one over the other?

I had a Herters case trimmer, and an RCBS outside turning attachment fit jes-fine.  I guess its what you get used to.

[Chev. William]

Thanks for the report Chev.  Glad to hear it works well.  Could you post a photo of it in action?  Thanks.

I will try once I get my camera to 'dump' photos into my computer again.  "Cotton Picking" software update got me.

On another note:  Yesterday I received a 1894 series Stevens Favorite Barrel in .32 Long that has the head space adjustment knurled ring nut on it.  I have not cleaned it up yet but the outside surface from Muzzle to Tenon covered with dark brown rust. the Tenon is grey metal.  The bore appears to either be nearly shot out or heavily lead fouled as the rifling is barely visible.
It did come with both front and rear fixed sights and a foreend, so even if it turns out it is not useable, I have a useable foreend and two sights out of it.

Also a few days ago, I received a Ebay purchase barrel in .22 Long Rifle that is also very rough both inside and out but may still be shootable after cleanup. Nothing has been done yet because I had two days of work, Thursday and Friday, and took some friends to the Navy Base Ventura Navy Exchange (bought a new CPO Summer White Uniform for a Formal Wedding to happen, then we went to the Ventura County Fairgrounds to visit the "Seaside Scottish Gathering and Games",  a nice 196 mile round trip.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[ndnchf]

Sir Charles - thanks, I'll do some research on them and try to figure out what will work best.

Chev - I know what a pain cameras and computers can be. I use a 10+ year old digital camera and have upgraded my computer a couple times over the years, requiring a new software install and configuration each time.  Is the CPO uniform for you or your friend?

[Chev. William]

Sir Charles - thanks, I'll do some research on them and try to figure out what will work best.

Chev - I know what a pain cameras and computers can be. I use a 10+ year old digital camera and have upgraded my computer a couple times over the years, requiring a new software install and configuration each time.  Is the CPO uniform for you or your friend?

The CPO uniform is for my Friend, he has been asked to be a member of the Wedding Party by an old Marine Veteran who is Renewing his Vows to his Wife of Long Standing.  The Marine Veteran is the last remaining member of the Squad that raised the first, small, Flag on Mt. Suribachi.  Higher ups ordered it replaced with a larger Flag that was Photographed and is now a symbol of the Battle.  The higher up eventually took possession of the small flag as a 'personal War Trophy'.

This Old Marine Veteran is now using a custom mobility Scooter and a Converted Van to get around at our local airport where he keeps his Yellow Ercoupe and is occasionally taken up to fly it by a friendly Licensed Pilot or Instructor, he come out regularly to 'visit' and keeps the airplane polished and dust free.

My Friend is also a veteran, of Vietnam, and was a Chief Gunners Mate in the service.  He has been operating a Special Effects operation for over 40 Years now, with First Class Pyrotechnic Technician License, multiple FFL and has been cleared to use pyrotechnics in the presence of the President for a past president.  I have known him since about 1985 when I helped build a 23 foot Alligator motion model for a Movie, not that great as it went directly to Video sales, no theater release.  This was my introduction to the Move Industry, and my first time as a 'permit Electrician/Electronic Technician' during a major down turn in the Defense Electronics Industry in my part of Southern California, this 'Downturn' eventually resulted in a period of about 12% unemployment in the area, since recovered and reoccurred several times as Other Industries were 'pushed out' of California to 'make the State Clean and Environmentally Safe' now we are in the midst of another period but this time the job market is not improving, people are just 'giving up the search' for work and taking whatever low paying and temporary jobs they can find, or just dropping out of the job market entirely.  Economic forced "Retired" status for many is the result for young and old alike now.
My current Employment prospects are similar but I am still getting Union Scale when I do work so it helps with the bills and Taxes yet.  California is again Regulating a 'key' industry to the point of forcing it out of State.  This last year I noted a report that stated that out of 23 Features planned for production, only two were planned for shooting in California, the rest were for out of State production in places more 'friendly' to the production Companies.  Another example an old line Studio has closed down most of the 'on lot support' shops and now is renting the Stages as 'Four Wall Rentals' and the production companies bring all the 'support services' in as outside contractors, not Movie Industry Union members, and at lower pay scales, for the project they are making, The Studio has reduced the Permanent staff to minimum maintenance and Admin. personnel. and converted the empty previous support shop area to rental office space or Rehearsal Halls.

Woops, It looks like I am getting into 'rant' mode so I will quit now.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

ndnchf,
A question about your Case forming methods.  I presume the dies you got from Dusty are through bored so you can get the formed case out.
Are they the correct ,marked, diameter from the top down to the 'entry cone' area?

This would allow forming of longer 'parent' cases, which would give a wider range of suitable supplies.

A second question, on the process.

How did you remove the formed case from the die after using the Arbor Press?

Just my Curious mind.

Best Regards,
Chev. Williiam

[ndnchf]

OK, I'm a retired Navy Chief,  so was just wondering.  Very cool what your friend is doing. Sorry to hear about the crappy work situation out there. I wish you the best of luck.

A spent the last couple hours making 10 more .32 LC cases from the Starline .32 S&W Long brass.  I can see why Jack charges what he does for these converted cases.  It's a a lot of work. Granted I don't have state of the art facilities, but I'm able to get the job done, it just takes me a while.  I have a few options to deal with the fit of the case mouth in my rifle:

1. I can order an inside neck reamer from Forster and ream to.299".
2. I can buy an outside neck turning tool and turn to a neck thickness of .008" (same as original .32 LC brass)
3. I can buy a mold from Accurate like the 31-090A or 31-090S and have the heel sized to .291" or .292" in order fit the converted brass with thicker case walls at the mouth.

I'm inclined to go with the inside reamer.  They seem to be the lowest cost option and I've used them before with good success.  It may not be as accurate as outside neck turning, but this isn't a bench rest competition rifle either.  That way I can stay with the original heel size bullet.  But I welcome your thoughts on this.

All this for a little 100 + year old plinkin' rifle!

[ndnchf]

Chev – yes, the dies are bored through.  I just use a rod to tap out the cases after using the arbor press.

The dies have two diameters.   They were first drilled and reamed to about .300".  Then each was drilled and reamed to their final sizes of .322" and .316".  So they are both stepped inside.  The .322" die is bored to a depth of a little over an inch.  My rifle uses a case length of .775", so for the .316" die he bored it just a little longer, about .785" by my rough measurement.  They work perfectly for my chamber.

[Chev. William]

I see, I think, you will need to trim parent cases to length before reforming them to .32 Long Colt.
Am I correct?

Also I cleaned the 'new' barrel I received (.32 Long) and the rifling is present the full length from Muzzle to chamber with pitting the full length also.  This barrel is one of the ones that were made with the knurled nut to adjust head space.  it came with both the Front and Rear fixed sights and a usable foreend on it.  I still have not tried to clean up the outside surface which is covered with dark brown rust, as I have not yet decided how, or if, to proceed.  I may set it aside for a while to think about first.

I won another barrel on Ebay, it has 'double strike' markings and reportedly a fair bore.  I will see what it looks like after i receive and clean the bore.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[ndnchf]

Chev - yes, trimming is the first and last step.  I trim to .775" before case forming.  Then after all the forming, clean up of the head area and final sizing, I trim again.  In the forming process the case grows about .018-.019".  Thus the need to trim a second time.  I made another 10 cases yesterday afternoon.  I now have 20 new cases made.

You are gettting quite a barrel collection.  Planning on a .32 Colt Gatling?   

[Chev. William]

Chev - yes, trimming is the first and last step.  I trim to .775" before case forming.  Then after all the forming, clean up of the head area and final sizing, I trim again.  In the forming process the case grows about .018-.019".  Thus the need to trim a second time.  I made another 10 cases yesterday afternoon.  I now have 20 new cases made.

You are gettting quite a barrel collection.  Planning on a .32 Colt Gatling?    

No, just trying to get a 'Good' usable accurate shooting one.  I figure I can try them out and keep the best shooting one then 'peddle' the others, or if none of them shoot well, pick one to reline.

I also have a 'small collection of .25 Stevens barrels that will get the same treatment.

It 'keeps me busy' while I am waiting for my actions to be completed.

I did get a referral to a shop that makes some of the Stevens Favorite Screws out of stronger materials.  I ordered some for my 1894 series actions.  The Shop telephone is 208-397-3008.
Unfortunately they are not making the Breech Block nor Lever pivot screws due to the 'wierd' thread Stevens used.
They also have three of four screws for the 1915 model.
I ordered Screws they have to replace the originals of my actions, to save my Gunsmith some time.
At $3.50 each the are reasonable in prices.

[ndnchf]

Well, I ordered a .299" inside reamer from Forster and a .32 Colt collet crimp die from Old West Moulds.  That should complete my .32 Colt loading equipment needs. 

There was a nice Ideal .32 Colt loading tool on Ebay that sold last night for $232.50.  Too rich for my blood.  Did any of you guys pick it up? 

[Chev. William]

Well, I ordered a .299" inside reamer from Forster and a .32 Colt collet crimp die from Old West Moulds.  That should complete my .32 Colt loading equipment needs. 

There was a nice Ideal .32 Colt loading tool on Ebay that sold last night for $232.50.  Too rich for my blood.  Did any of you guys pick it up? 

$232.50 was too much for me as one purchase with the threat of suspended Disability payments from the VA and possible Suspension of Social Security payments to be ordered by November.

The .299" reamer:  Does that mean that your cases will be a 'slip fit' on the bullet heels?

Best Regards,
Chev William

[ndnchf]

Yes, a slip fit.  Then I'll use Bernie's crimp die on it. 

[Chev. William]

AAh, I see now.
Best Regards,
Chev. William