.32 Long Colt ,Need Help

[Chev. William]

I wonder if my experience reforming .22 Hornet cases to Straight walled .25 ACP/.25 Stevens diameters may be of interest to you both.

In my case, I expand the .22 Hornet neck and shoulder with a 0.250" diameter expander punch then run them into a Lee .25ACP Carbide sizing die as far as the shell holder will aoow, which leaves a short section of the base that is still at original Hornet diameter.

The next step uses a "RCBS Primer Pocket Swager Tool" small pocket punch, the stripper cup and a 3/16" Fender Washer to force the last area of the Hornet case into the .25ACP sizing die up to the rim.  This is done in small increments using my press in "toggle" mode to get the force necessary.

I end up with a straignt walled case about 0.275" to .0.276" except for the small area just above the rim, which has a slight taper and a roll of displaced brass that I machine off.  The machining takes place on the rim diameter, the top of the rim and a light skim cut on the base wall that is part of the solid base of the cartridge.

After the sizing and machining, then I use the results as "parent cases to trim down to the final lengths I need.

The roll of displaced brass I talk about is mostly from the base sizing and is formed into a radius 'fillet' at the top of the rim.  The radius matches the entry radius of the carbide sizing die. and is over the surface of the original extractor relief cut of the Hornet case.  It does machine off easily, sometimes as a 'ring' of brass if i get the depth of cut just right, and leaves the remainder of the original extractor cut visible.

The idea of reversing the sizing die you are using may make the 'roll' more of a square corner at the top of the rim, perhaps even shearing it off when it moves below the top of the extractor clearance cut on the parent .32 S&W Long case.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[ndnchf]

Chev - thanks for sharing your experiences, very interesting.  How much are you sizing the base down? For the .32 lC from .32 S&W the base needs to be reduced about .019", from .335" to about .316". Just wondering how that compares to what you are doing.

[Chev. William]

The .22 hornet is specified as being 0.2952" diameter at a point 0.200" up from the bottom of the case.  The .25ACP is specified as a straight wall case 0.278" diameter.  My sizing die seems to bring them to 0.276" diameter so I guess that would be about a 0.019" diameter reduction.  My .32 Long RF chamber in the Stevens Barrel seems to be about 0.316 to 0.317 in diameter at the throat end before the throat reduction.
It appears the reductions of the diameters are comparable, however yours will have to displace slightly more material due to the larger case final diameter of the .32 Long Colt/.32 Long RF versus the .25 Stevens/.25ACP.

My .32 Long Colt sizing die is ground to match my chamber so it will size to the 0.316" diameter instead of the nominal 0.315" to minimize working of my Brass between firings.  I do know I will need to order some trimmer pilots to match both the .25ACP/.25 Stevens mouth diameters and the .32 Long Colt mouth diameters as the ".25 caliber" and both the ".30 caliber" and ".32 Caliber" ones I ordered came out too large for the cases I have.  Perhaps they would have been correct for .257" calibers, .30 Carbine, and .32 S&W calibers?  Oh well, just a minor problem with getting what I needed instead of what the manufacturer thinks I wanted, communications breakdown perhaps?

Best Regards,
Chev. William.

[Adirondacker]

Boys, all this talk of reaming, & grinding, & swaging is cooling me down on the idea of picking up another .32 Long;  not that I see one coming my way any time soon.  (Of course, when I wasn't looking for one, I was seeing them all the time.)  Dusty has the right idea of using an Ideal tong tool--I have them for .30-40 & .30-30, because I wanted something to neck-size only, without buying a special neck-size die.  Looking at a few of them on ebay, however, I'm amazed at the prices asked for them; average 3 times what I paid for mine, though that was many years ago.   

[ndnchf]

Chev - thanks again for the details.  It does sound like a similar amount of sizing.

Adironacker - Don't let all this talk dissuade you from a nice rifle.  You can buy ready-to-use the .32 LC brass made from .32 S&W from Jack on Gunbroker, along with bullets ready to load.  Some of us are just a glutton for punishment and like do it the hard way  

[Chev. William]

I am Emailing "Carolina Cast Bullets" about two items:
First is a purchase of 500ea 50gr "Ranch Dog" .25ACP bullets.  these Cast as .258" Diameter and can be sized down to .253" by C.C.B. as a catalog item.

Second is a query about them setting up to make a heeled .32 Long Colt bullet to add to their line of .32 S&W size bullets.

Any who are interested in a supplier getting into this 'nitch market' might email them with your interests.

The design I have been asking about is the Accurate Molds 31-090A or a reduced diameter version of the same design and weight, to better fit my Stevens .32 Long RF barrel.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[ndnchf]

I got to the range today and tried out the .32 shorts and longs loaded with 2400. Previous outings with my little #4 rolling block I shot it at 10 yards.  Today I moved to the big boy range and shot at 50 yards.  The .32 SC were so so, about 4" groups.  The .32LC loaded with 4.5 gr of 2400 shot very well, 2.5" - 3" when I could do my part.     I had 3 rounds loaded with 5.0 gr and they shot well too.  But I felt more comfortable with the 4.5 gr load. There was a bit of unburned powder in the bore afterward, but it didn't seem to bother anything. Overall I was pretty pleased with this load. 50 yards seems like a long way for this little round, but it did surprisingly well.

[Adirondacker]

You can buy ready-to-use the .32 LC brass made from .32 S&W from Jack on Gunbroker, along with bullets ready to load.

Here's ready-to-use!

[Chev. William]

I got to the range today and tried out the .32 shorts and longs loaded with 2400. Previous outings with my little #4 rolling block I shot it at 10 yards.  Today I moved to the big boy range and shot at 50 yards.  The .32 SC were so so, about 4" groups.  The .32LC loaded with 4.5 gr of 2400 shot very well, 2.5" - 3" when I could do my part.     I had 3 rounds loaded with 5.0 gr and they shot well too.  But I felt more comfortable with the 4.5 gr load. There was a bit of unburned powder in the bore afterward, but it didn't seem to bother anything. Overall I was pretty pleased with this load. 50 yards seems like a long way for this little round, but it did surprisingly well.

Reading I have done indicates that the .32 Long RF was "good" for target shooting out to about 150 yards.  this was from the period around 1890s and usually means firing Off Hand Standing out to about 200 yards with 'Iron Sights'.  If you can, measure the muzzle velocity of your load, the .32 Long RF was reported to run about 1080fps to 1100fps according to what I have seen in print from the era.

Yes, it will need to have your muzzle 'elevated' to adjust for the 'high trajectory' of the cartridge, but that is due to the subsonic velocity and is better for accuracy than going transonic velocity, unless you  want to keep the bullet velocity above the speeed of sound all the way to the target.  Besides, I am sure you would be pleased if you can get accurate hits out at 100 or 150 yards out of your rifle and this cartridge.

What is your barrel length?

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[ndnchf]

150 yards sounds optomistic.  Maybe under ideal circumstances with calibrated sghts and young, clear eyes.  But that's not me

I don't have a chrono, so I don't know the MV.  Way back in this thread a posted a photo of this little rifle.  But here it is again:



Its the lower rifle in the photo and I've moved the tang sight to it from the other one.  Its a "boy's" rifle with 22.5" barrel, and a 13" LOP.  

[Adirondacker]

Reading I have done indicates that the .32 Long RF was "good" for target shooting out to about 150 yards.  this was from the period around 1890s and usually means firing Off Hand Standing out to about 200 yards with 'Iron Sights'.  If you can, measure the muzzle velocity of your load, the .32 Long RF was reported to run about 1080fps to 1100fps according to what I have seen in print from the era.

Wo!  Nothing I've ever read suggests that!  At 150 yds, .32RF or CF would have the trajectory of a mortar round.  The greatest .32RF enthusiast who ever lived was Allyn Tedmon, but he never shot it much beyond 50 yds.

[Chev. William]

Beautiful Rifles, I only hope my two will end up looking as good.

As to the Range limits, yes the Author did state that the .32 Long RF has a "High Trajectory" for ranges of 100 to 150 yards and was not of much use as a target round beyond that.  But Remember, the author was writing of practices in the 1887-1890 era and was originally published in 1890.  There is a definite difference in the Shootings Sports methods and practice between then and now.

My Eyes are also getting 'tired' in my old age so I believe I will be joining you on the 'short range' end to be able to still use 'Iron Sights' for useful effect.  I would rather not encumber my 1894 series Stevens Favorite Rifles with modern Optical Sights if I can avoid it.
Most of my shooting probably will be on the "short" range at my Local Outdoor Commercial Shooting Range, which has positions for target frames from 7 yards out to 100 yards.  The "long" range side is 100 yards out to an extreme of 600 yards and usually is the home of the "big Optics" group of shooters, firing high velocity 'flat Trajectory' cartridges.

Please note that back in the 1890s Target size and scoring were both different and in a state of flux.  The reported 200 yard Bulls eye was about 12 inches in diameter on a 4 x 6 foot target and had zone scores ranging form a 5 for a hit in the Bull down to a 1 for hitting the target outer area, this is from memory of reading, and has not lately been re-verified.

If there are Authors who state differently as to the .32 Long RF useful Target Range and trajectory, then I humbly stand corrected.  Modern practices and our aging eyes will indeed affect our practical range for accurate shooting, both now and in the future, so I will apologize for my citing my reading of authors of the 1890s as useful observations of their contemporary shooting practices and results.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Adirondacker]

Allyn Tedmon, the "godfather of Stevens rifles" (as he was called by James Grant), the earliest Stevens historian, & one of my chief personal heroes, was born in 1889; his first, & probably most beloved, rifle was a .32RF Stevens.  Best account of his life appeared in the Dec. '99, Precision Shooting.

[ndnchf]

I been getting fed up with aging eyes and a fuzzy sight picture.  So I just ordered a Merit Optical attachment for my glasses.  I hear a lot of good things about these, I hope they are all true.

http://www.meritcorporation.com/products.html

[Adirondacker]

I been getting fed up with aging eyes and a fuzzy sight picture.  So I just ordered a Merit Optical attachment for my glasses.  I hear a lot of good things about these, I hope they are all true.

http://www.meritcorporation.com/products.html

Something I'd like to try, but probably won't. I've got the cheaper gadget with the large rotating disk punctured by apertures of different sizes.  Haven't used it in a long while, because I found the restriction of my vision nerve wracking.

I do have a Merit aperture on a Lyman 48 mounted on the rifle I shoot more than any other, & have tried shooting with the smaller aperture, but found for whatever reason that the front sight & target looked sharper with it opened up all the way.  But maybe that's just my rotten eyes. 

[Chev. William]

Noted Today:
Cabella's has a listing for Magtech .32 S&W Long Brass on sale for about $17.00 for a bag of 100 cases.  Fodder for resizing to .32 Long Colt?

[ndnchf]

Noted Today:
Cabella's has a listing for Magtech .32 S&W Long Brass on sale for about $17.00 fo ra bag of 100 cases.  Fodder for resizing to .32 Long Colt?

Dang - that's a bargain.  I just paid $20 for 50 Starline cases at a gun show last weekend.

[ndnchf]

I received the .309" and .314" Lee push through bullet sizers today and tried them out with a .32 colt heeled bullet.  The bullets come from jack @ .315".  I lubed it and ran it through the .314" sizer, then mic'd it - .314" on the nose. I then ran it though the .309" die.  It took a little more pressure but not too bad. It mic'd a .309" on the nose too.  So I'm quite pleased with them. My rifle's groove is .308" so I hope these will work well. The lube grooves are smaller after sizing, but I'm going to try out the liquid alox that comes with the sizer.  I've never used alox, but hope it will work well with a 4.5gr of 2400.

[Chev. William]

According to all the reading I have done on the subject of Cast bullet size versus Barrel groove diameter indicate it should work quite well.  Now we get to find out what you experience.  
Eventually, when I get my Rifle back, I will try the rounds I have loaded with BP and "299153" bullets.  I hope they also will work in my Stevens .32 Long RF barrel.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Some QuickLOAD calculations:
using a 22.5 inch barrel length, and 2400 powder; 
A 86gr bullet with 5gr charge calculates to about 10,500psi and 1092fps.
A 90gr bullet with 5gr charge calculates to about 10,823psi and 1088fps.
A 86gr bullet with 4.5gr charge calculates to about 8,930psi and 992fps.
A 90gr bullet with 4.5gr charge calculates to about 9,170psi and 988fps.
Trying for a velocity of near 1124fps:
A 86gr bullet with 5.15gr charge calculates to about 11,033psi and 1123fps.
A 90gr bullet with 5.18gr charge calculates to about 11,499psi and 1124fps.
These are all below the CIP pressure limit of 14,504psi (CIP is the European Standards used in QuickLOAD).

I hope you all find this useful.
Using the same numbers with my 21.75" barrel, would result in lower calculated velocity.
Best Regards,
Chev William.