.32 Long Colt ,Need Help

[Adirondacker]

That group on paper is what count's . Dusty

Absolutely.  Test reports I've read indicate that "most consistent vel." does NOT necessarily mean "most accurate," & I can even remember reading results in which the least consistent was one of the most accurate.

[Adirondacker]

Its about 45 minutes each way to a good shop. 

Ah feels yo pain. Same distance for me, except when I get there it's not a "good" shop but a small mediocre one.

[w44wcf]

Another Way To Resize......
I was running some cast bullets through my lubrisizer (.312") and I had a thought that one could neck resize the .32 Colt cases in the lubrisizer. I took a couple of cases and placed them nose down in the die and pushed them in about 3/16". 

Perfect!

w30wcf

[ndnchf]

Another Way To Resize......
I was running some cast bullets through my lubrisizer (.312") and I had a thought that one could neck resize the .32 Colt cases in the lubrisizer. I took a couple of cases and placed them nose down in the die and pushed them in about 3/16". 

Perfect!

w30wcf

I hadn't thought of that, but it's great idea!  Similarly, I have used lube sizing dies to measure bullets that I've used to slug bores that have an odd number of lands/grooves.  I did this recently on a .56.-50 Spencer infantry rifle.  It has 3 groove rifling which is hard to measure with a standard mic. I have lube dies from .512"-.515".  I found the slug would enter the .514" die with a hair of wiggle room, but not quite enter the .515" die.  So I determined that it slugged at .5145".   

[dusty texian]

Neat Idea. Have been shooting the (299153) from Jack,as cast with good result's. And using my home brew lube. The lube mixture is holding on in this heat 90' + every day.Think it will do better when the temp.cool's some . Have been lubing with a home made lube tube that does not size the bullet just wipe's it with lube. Would say that I made it from a 8MM case ,primer pocket opened up to hold a plunger, that resembles a nail sticking out of the case and half the case side cut out for bullet and lube entry. I know it sound's crude, and it is. But it work's good for the few bullet's I use in the .32 LC. ,,,,,,Dusty

[w44wcf]

Here's a pic of some early .32 Colt cartridge boxes that I copied from various auction sites over the past few years.
These would have been some of the ones used by early owners of  Marlin .32 Colt rifles. 
Note that the earlier UMC had the loading on the box face.



w44wcf

[dusty texian]

Thank's w44wcf" I for one really enjoy reading the Old Add's from the past. Like the way some of the old caliber's were marked 32/100 Caliber, or 44/100 and so on. I have seen Winchester and other's use this in the past. The Marlin leveraction  1891 /1892,being able to chamber and fire all the different cartridge's, the .32 Long Colt / .32 Short Colt/ .32 Short Rimfire/.32 Long Rimfire, and some the .32 Extra Long Rimfire, and not to forget ,the .32 shot shell . Made this little rifle very Handy,when the owner of one went into a store ,way back to purchase Ammunition . They had a good chance the Store Keeper would have somthing that the little rifle would digest. We complain about Ammunition shortage now ,Just think how it was way back Yonder. I'll bet not much ammo was spent on waste, Very Cool,,,,,Dusty.

[Adirondacker]

Here's a pic of some early .32 Colt cartridge boxes that I copied from various auction sites over the past few years.

How did Colt get away with adding their name to a cartridge developed by S&W in 1860, when the first Colt pistols chambered for this round weren't put on the market until the 1870s?  Was Colt, possibly, first to offer an inside-lubed bullet? 

The .32 L.R. box ought to be a scarce one.  I've examined scores of rifles chambered for .32 L., but none in L.R. or Extra Long.

[w44wcf]

Dusty,
I also really enjoy looking at the old cartridges, cartridge boxes and ads from a bigone era.

As you said,  "The Marlin leveraction  1891 /1892, being able to chamber and fire all the different cartridge's, the .32 Long Colt / .32 Short Colt/ .32 Short Rimfire/.32 Long Rimfire, and some the .32 Extra Long Rimfire, and not to forget ,the .32 shot shell, made this rifle very handy."  Yes indeed!  

Speaking of shot cartridges ....



w44wcf

[w44wcf]

Adirondacker,
Since S&W did not produce cartridges the .32 Short and .32 Long rounds could be chambered in other revolvers. In time because Colt likely had a larger market share (?) The Colt name was added and also, by the late 1870's S&W developed the current .32 S&W cartridges which, as we know, did not use a heeled bullet.

Regarding the .32 Long Rifle, Marlin indicated that the cartridge was developed for their Marlin rifle, and although the "Long Rifle" moniker was dropped somewhere along the way, .32 Long Colt (.91" case) cartridges with the hollow base bullet are the same thing.

Here's another box I found on the internet. As you said they are likely pretty rare.



w44wcf

[pony express]

Adirondacker, I think S&W developed the rimfire 32s in the 1860's, but both Colt and S&W later developed their own, different centerfires.

[Adirondacker]

Regarding the .32 Long Rifle, Marlin indicated that the cartridge was developed for their Marlin rifle, and although the "Long Rifle" moniker was dropped somewhere along the way, .32 Long Colt (.91" case) cartridges with the hollow base bullet are the same thing.

w44wcf

Cartridges of the World (the only cartridge reference known to me that describes them) says: "Long Rifle case length between that of .32 Long and Extra Long rimfire."  These would be cases for heel bullets.  The cases for inside-lubed bullets were a later development.  The Extra Long was a rimfire equivalent, almost, of the later .32-20.

My question, in a nutshell: when were inside-lubed bullets FIRST offered?  Were they developed at the instigation of Colt?  (Which would justify the ".32 Colt" designation.)  Don't know how this question could be answered without access to comprehensive collection of ammo catalogs, or maybe Colt catalogs of the right period; but what is the "right period"?

[Adirondacker]

Adirondacker, I think S&W developed the rimfire 32s in the 1860's, but both Colt and S&W later developed their own, different centerfires.

S&W's later .32CF (c.1878) WAS a different cartridge in Short & Long variants (but CF only), but not Colt's .32RF & CF; I mean the Colts could be fired in any of the earlier .32s.  (Unless I'm much mistaken--I haven't actually tried to do it.)

[Adirondacker]

The 1888 Stevens catalog shows illustrations of the .32 Long & Extra Long, but not the Long Rifle--so maybe it was obsolete by '88.  The Extra Long was also offered as a CF.

There are also illustrations of .32 Colt Short & Long centerfires (but not rimfires), both of which appear to have heel bullets.

Just found another reference to the .32 L.R. in Herschel Logan's Cartridges: total length 1-3/16"; case 29/32".

[w44wcf]

Adirondacker,
1st inside lubed bulleted cartridge was possibly the .50-70 introduced in 1866.

1st heeled bullet cartridge was the .22 Short which debuted in 1857 ..... or maybe was the BB Cap (1845)(?).
That set the standard for the .32 Short and .32 Long (sometimes referred to as the .32 Short Colt and .32 Long Colt) which followed.

1st inside lubed heeled bullet circa 1895 -In checking my older catalogs, the first appearance of the .32 Long Rifle is around 1895 in the UMC Catalog and is so named up until around 1920 when the nomenclature changes to .32 Long Colt Inside Lubed. (Winchester began using the .32 Long Colt Inside Lubed description by 1905).



Left - .32 Long / aka .32 Long Colt (1861 - circa 1920 excluding remanufactured Navy Arms)

Right - .32 Long Rifle / aka .32 Long Colt Inside Lubed / aka  .32 Long Colt (.32 Long Colt -1920 - 1970's)

w44wcf



 

[Adirondacker]

Gun & ammo makers were always looking for excuses to tack their names on to cartridges that were ALREADY popular.  One good example: the .32 Colt New Police--nothing more than the "old" .32 S&W Long loaded with a flat-nosed bullet.  (Interesting story, too, about how Colt hoodwinked the NYPD to adopt their revolvers & this round as the official sidearm...though that arrangement didn't last long.)

I'm leaning to the conclusion that Colt had "something" to do with the introduction of inside-lubed bullets & longer cases for the old, original .32 Long & Short, and that's why Colt's name is now linked to cartridges originally designed by S&W. 

[w44wcf]

Ideal heeled bullets for the .32's  
Note the .32 Long Rifle Marlin 1892 reference under the 299155.



w44wcf

[dusty texian]

w44wcf" Thank's for the look into the past. This is some very usefull information. Have you tested the 299154 in the 32 LC..78 case?When my .32 LC bench gun is completed, this 299154 would be a good bullet to try @100yd.This bench gun will have a 6x 3/4" scope on it .Would be interesting to see how accurate the little .32 can be @ 100yd.Have you recieved the New mould yet? Looking forward to a range report on the new bullet design,,,,,,Dusty

[ndnchf]

Sorry I've been remiss in reporting back about .32 Colt loaded with APP.  I got sidetracked working with my Spencer rifle.    Results with APP FFFG were not quite as good as with the Pyrodex or Goex.  Groups were just a little bigger, but not bad.  APP has a nice bang and good smoke.  The bullets had NO lube at all.  When I cleaned the rifle afterwards, there was no signs of leading.  I think this is worth pursuing further.  I used standard small pistol primers, I may try the same load with small pistol magnum primers to see if it makes a difference.  I also want to load some with 4.5gr of 2400. 

[Adirondacker]

Ideal heeled bullets for the .32's  
Note the .32 Long Rifle Marlin 1892 reference under the 299155.
w44wcf

Very interesting that this bullet is associated with Marlin, not Colt.  So now I wonder if the inside-lubed idea originated with Marlin?

What is the number of the Ideal catalog from which this page was copied, w44wcf?  In Ideal #5 (early 1890s), NO .32 Short or Long bullets of any kind are listed.