.32 Long Colt ,Need Help

[Chev. William]

Have made a couple drawing's of a custom bullet seater for the .32 LC  heeled bullet. Will give it more thought then fabricate one . See the need to get the Heeled bullet seated straight . The heel is so short I think there is NO room for error . What are your thought's ....Dusty

Dusty,
I have yet to actaly fire any .32 fully loaded rounds.  Only dare to pope a primer at home about once a week to test a firing pin position or adapter case design, Never with a Charge nor Bullet though.

My own trials with dummy loading, then pulling the bullets, indicate to me a 'SLIGHT' belling of the .32 case mouth and careful hand setting of the bullet on the 'belled' mouth while the case is in the shell holder under a seating die will seat the Heeled bullet straight.

It takes a gentle 'feel' on the press handle to just push the bullet in until the mouth of the case touches the Base of he Driving Band.  Checking them by "eye" for concentrically and squareness of the seating looked good to me.  I did not crimp these trials as I did not want to overwork the brass.

Note that I had the 'seating plug run fully inot the top of the die so i was NOT hitting the reduced bore diameter of the roll crimping edge with the Front of the Driving Bands.

This technique seems to work on .32 Short, .32 Long, and .32 Extra long case lengths; however I was unable to try the .32 Extra Short in my seating die, the bullet just touched the punch when the Shell Holder 'two blocked' against the bottom of the die.  I know because the bullet was just started into the case mouth but well short of the base of the Driving Band. I was using "299153" bullets for the testing.

Since the 'Extra Shorts are only an experiment, and I only have 6 of that length, and then only to see if I could trim to that length if the need arose in the future; I have not modified a seating die to fit the Extra Short cases.

The 'Bell' I have used is just detectible by feel and the inside edge of the mouth is just slightly larger in diameter than the Heel in question (299153 heel).  for my "311090A" bullets, I would need a slightly deeper 'Bell' because that heel is slightly larger in diameter.

As to Crimping the Extra Short case.  I do think a dedicated custom shell holder would work with the 'Old West Molds" modified collet crimp die but I have not pursued that yet.

The "OWM" adjustable custom shell holder that came with my "OWM' modified collet crimp die does adjust for .75" through .93" case lengths though. (right at the 'edge' of its range at both ends though.)

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Cooperhawk]

The sight came in the mail yesterday but the screws are still soaking in Blaster so I can't mount it yet.

A few years back I purchased some .32 LC off the shelf and learned the hard way that they need to
be crimped.  From the factory these were not and when I fired the rifle the cartridges in the feed tube
were jolted setting the bullet deeper in the case.  The result was that they were too short to work in
the loading mechanism.

I have a set of dies that I purchased from Buffalo last year and they work very well at crimping the cases.
I loaded one box with a light load of 2 grns of Unique.   They cycle through the rifle very well, but
are really too light.  I will now up the loads gradually until I find that perfect load for my rifle.

[Chev. William]

That sounds like you are not using Heeled bullets, since I would think the step from 'heel' to 'Driving Band' would have actted to stop the bullets being set back in the case mouth from light recoil.  If you are using the ".32 Long Rifle" style cartridge, it had a smaller diameter inside lube Bullet that does not hav ea 'heel' and is actually smaller than the Bore/Groove dimensions o fmos trifles made for the .32 Long Colt. 

Much earlier in this Thread there was a discussion on the various case lengths and the Style bullets used ovdr the years for the range of ".32 Long colt" family of cartridges.

Also, if you ar ea member of 'Ammoguide Interactive" they have all of them listed with dimensions in their data base.  in the Ammoguide 'search window' if you enter ".32" it will bring up a list of all of the .32 Cartridges in the data base with basic dimensions in a table from which you can select the one you wish to look at.

This is only ONE of the useful features of the Ammogude web page.

Best Regards,
Chev. william

[Cooperhawk]

I didn't load those bullets.  I bought them off the shelf and I'm not sure what bullet they used in them.

The cartridges are Remington .32 LC with an 82 grain lead bullet.  I still have some,

The off the shelf price then was $13.96.  Wish I had a case.

[Chev. William]

82 grain sounds like the "Inside Lube" design bullet.  If you can measure th ecase length, that will give a better idea.

From the Ammoguide cartridge notes:
"Marlin offered their 1892 rifle in .32 Short/Long Colt but the line proved more popular in Europe and was not widely chambered by other American gun makers. Commercially, the .32 Short and Long Colt line was eventually replaced by the .32 Smith & Wesson Short and Long rounds.

According to a 1905 Marlin catalog, the .32 Long Colt was loaded with 12 grains of blackpowder behind a 90 grain bullet. Originally loaded with an outside-lubricated .313" bullet, the diameter of the projectile was reduced when an inside-lubricated bullet was later employed. The new bullet was also lighter and shorter, reducing the cartridge overall length."

The .32 LC with an 82 grain Inside Lube Bullet should have a .916" case length and a 1.216" overall length and the bullet is about .302" diameter.
The .32 LC with an 90 grain Outside Lube Bullet should have a .312" diameter bullet with visible grooves on the exposed 'nose' near the case mouth filled/coated with a Waxy lubricant.  The overall cartridge should be about 1.280" with a case length of less than that mentioned for the Inside Lube version.

Look though the previous posts to this thread and I believe you will find photos of the different versions, including the RF versions that were the first one sin the family/series.

Another point, You should "Slug" your barrel and measure the actual Bore/Groove diameters of your barrel.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[MrWolf]

Hi new member. I just read all 22 pages after being refered here by w30wcf on Marlin Owners. I had posted the following there and was really intrigued with making my own 32 longs as they are impossible to find. A member on the Marlin forum is looking at his father's to see if he might have some. Here is my story:

This summer I had won an auction for what looked like a nicely preserved Model 92 in 32-20. 26" octagon barrel, serial #3832XX. Long story short I ended up with a 32 caliber (appears to be centerfire) that has the barrel tapped for scope blocks. The rifle was also refinished (not a great job). Seller stated he thought it was just a good finish but conceded later it was refinished. Let's just say I am out north of $700 - yea I got beat. Gunbroker's fraud protection is garbage as I have been fighting with them since. They do not disclose that you must return the firearm to them and they will resell and give you proceeds less fees. Not helpful when what you got is worth half what you paid. Ok enough whining.

Action is good and tight, rifiling is still good with no pitting. I slugged the bore (.3086). Best this will be is an overpriced shooter. Trying to find 32 long brass is like trying to find hen's teeth. Assuming I eventually find some, what mould would you recommend? I will cast using probably pure and powder coat for lube. Any help would be appreciated, just don't laugh to hard at my stupidity. Seller only taking a bank check was a huge red flag and I messed up.

Thanks,

Ron

Do you need an arbor press to generate the pressure needed to eliminate that final bulge? I would think if I could find maybe 100 cases with careful reloading they might last. I have since purchased on Ebay an Ideal No 1 32 L to try. I will proably end up ordering a mould from Accurate but wanted that tool. Enough time has passed that she is growing on me and the pain from getting beat has subsided. She really is nice.  Here are some pics:
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[Chev. William]

MrWolf;
First problem is what is the actual chamber cut to fit?  You first mention .32-20 as the Caliber then start talking of .32 Long yet they are tow Different cartridges in diameter, shape, and length.

According to "Ammoguide interactive" web site, the .32-20 Winchester is 1.315" long 'bottle neck' design with a roughly .352" base diameter, a .408" Rim diameter, and .065 rim thickness.

The .32 Long Colt (CF) and .32 Long (RF) have case length of between .75" and .93" depending upon the era and bullet design (outside lubed heeled or inside lubed hollow base) with a base diameter of .318", a rim diameter of .378" to 381", and a rim thickness of .053".

AS to Forming .32 Long Colt cases form everything from .32 S&W Long through .327 Federal Magnum parent brass, I find a RCBS "RC" press fitted with the longer handle from a RCBS "Amoomaster 2" is quite adequate to form the brass first from .337" down to .329" in a Lee "push through Sizing die, then from .329 to .318" in a Lee Carbide .32 Long/Short Colt Sizing die (cleaned up inside to remove a lip that was deforming the mouths of cases).

the force involved on my press is that of my seated upper body 'straight armed' on the Ball ended handle.  Previous forming with the original length handle took standing up to get the force needed to form the caes to the top of the rim.

To control the Primer pocket in the forming process I use a Pocket swaging punch with spacer pieces to limit its insertion into the pocket. 

After getting the cases to .32 Long Colt diameters, they still need to have the Roll of displaced brass just above the rim turned off in a lathe (cleanest) or by chucking in a power drill and using a sharp mill file to remove it.

I did detail my process earlier in this thread.

Others use a Arbor Press but This is what I have on hand.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Also, there is a gentleman who periodically advertizes .32 Long colt cases formed from .32 S&W Long Brass, at $18.00 for 20 cases as of the last batch I bought from him, by the name J. Harrison. he also advertizes Cast "299153" heeled outside lubed .32 Long bullets.

Chev. William

[MrWolf]

Chev. William,

The 32-20 was mentioned as that is the auction I won. Rifle turns out to be a 32 rimfire/centerfire when he went to send it to me.  I did read where the cases were formed but you filled in a few gaps for me. I have a Lee clasic that I was wondering if it would be strong enough. I don't have a lathe but you anserwed that issue. Based upon everything, your solution of finding the reworked brass may be the road I take in the end. Without the proper tools, it is probably not worth it.

Thanks for all the information in the post and your response. It us greatly appreciated as I know nothing of the 32 cal.

Ron

[Chev. William]

I am not familiar with the "Lee classic" press but if it is of the "O" frame design and have the "Lee Carbide Reloading Die Set" for the .32 Short and Long Colt Cartridges, you have half the tools needed for reforming Brass.

I started out using an RCBS "JR-3" press and 'incrementing' the Case base into the die by turning the Die body down in 1/12th turn steps, each time raising the press ram up to sue the top of the travel "toggle effect' to get the brass to size down.

For Reloading, in addition to your Reloading die set, I recommend you buy a custom 'Modified Collet Crimping Die' and Shell Holder set from "Old West Molds"; set up for your verified case length.  The general purpose seating /Crimping dies are not easily used for Heeled bullets as they will 'shave' Lead form the Driving Bands if you try to use them to crimp Heeled Bullets.

You will still need to find out exactly low long your Rifle's chamber is whether you use outside Lube or Inside Lube bullets.  The Chamber length varies with manufacturer and age of the Rifle and it is not good to try to chamber a too long cartridge in a short chamber as it may go in but the pressure on firing may be pushed way up if the bullet is sitting in the rifling already and the case mouth is into the 'throat' as it wil have no place to expand to release the bullet so higher pressure will be generated to 'extrude' the Bullet out of the trapped mouth and down the rifled bore.

If you review the past posts you will find notes on ways to determine your chamber length.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[MrWolf]

Chev. William,

In this case, would you recommend a chaber cast with  CerroSafe (or RotoMetaks), a chamber button such as from NOE, or an impact impression? The impact impression seems to required a fire formed case which I don't have and a chamber button would have to wait until I get some cases.

Thanks again for the help.

Ron

[Chev. William]

A "Cerrosafe" Low melting point alloy Chamber cast would be the most accurate way.

A lower accuracy way is to Carefully use the 'depth' probe of a Dial Caliper along the chamber wall to 'feel' for the Step where the
Straight wall chamber suddenly reduces in diameter at the beginning of the Throat.   Its accuracy depends on Your Feel in doing the measurement(s).  Several repeats of the measurement around the circumference of the Chamber will give you a better idea of the actual depth.

From what I gather from my own barrels, the Chambers are around .317"-.319" at the front of the Case length, then step down to about .313"-.311" at the beginning of the throat; which then tapers down to whatever the Bore Diameter is.

I confirmed one chamber length by starting with an overly long empty case, which would not go fully into the chamber; then in small increments shortened it until it would just fully enter the chamber, this gave me the length that I needed to calculate the the True case length by subtracting The length of my bullet's Driving Bands (Heeled Bullet).

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[MrWolf]

Ordered casting compound from RotoMetals. Thanks!

[Chev. William]

You are welcome.
Merry Christmas to All and have a Safe Happy New Year,
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[MrWolf]

just got my Ideal No 1 32l. Great shape and mould looks real nice. Won't let me post pics for some reason just inserts [img][img]. Weird

[Chev. William]

I have found that it is easier to post a link from "photobucket.com" posted photo file than to psot a link to my own computer photo file copy, my computer is NOT a 'Server" and is not always on.

Further, Separate your photos into subject 'libraries' on whatever service you use so their positions will not change later.  Changing the position of the photo file on the Server will change its reference link so previously posted 'links' will fail.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[MrWolf]

Pretty sure it is the site having issues. Won't take an image, url, etc. I rebooted also and no good.

[Chev. William]

Wait a couple of days and try again.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

Added 201412241647PST: I just noticed you only have 7 posts so it may be a Site problem as I think the rules fo this Forum are you are required to have a minimum number of posts before you can add photo links.  Double Check the General Information section to verify.  Chev. William

[MrWolf]

Thanks, I looked but could not find the answer so I posted the question.

[MrWolf]

Turns out the Ideal No 1 32l is for the 32 Ideal which is for basically the Stevens44 and 44 1/2. Great, now I have to get another rifle to use the mould for! I can't win but I am not giving up.