.32 Long Colt ,Need Help

[ndnchf]

I have tumble lubed bullets in Lee Alox before loading. But it seems very thick. I may try it again as you say, after loading. I might thin it a little with mineral spirits.  If you open a Photobucket account, you can put your photos there, then link them into posts.  That's how I do all mine, it works well.

[Adirondacker]

I just recently obtained a cable to allow downloading Photos from my digital camera to my computer, now I need to figure out how the reduce the data file size from roughly 1,500KB to something suitable to post on this web site.  And How to post Photos here.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

Many cameras give you a choice of photo size, though finding where that setting is among all the other settings can be highly aggravating.  But if you can't do that, when you get the photo into your computer under the "Pictures" folder, right-click "open with" & choose "Paint."  (Assuming you're using Windows.)  When it opens in Paint, you'll see "Resize," which allows you to reduce it as much as needed. 

[ndnchf]

I see that Dixie Gun Works has the long version of the reloadable .32 RF cases available.  The length is not mentioned, but I assume they would be equal to the orginal rimfire case length (either .78" or .94").  These are easily reloaded with .22 blanks or .22 shorts (with the bullet and powder pulled).  In a single shot like the #4, these may work fine with no need to convert the block.  I've used the relaodable .56 Spencer cases, but never tried the .32 cases.  Have any of you tried them? I'm wondering what the exact dimensions are.  Length, OD, ID.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=8155&osCsid=26g6h7er7gka5qaprl2tsbiv63

I may order a few and see how they fit.  They would probably need to be reamed to take the heeled bullet, but that is easy enough.  They aren't much good in repeaters, but if they can be made to work with the proper Lyman 299153 bullet, it would make buying a single shot .32 rimfire a much more viable option.

[Adirondacker]

I see that Dixie Gun Works has the long version of the reloadable .32 RF cases available. 

They've been around quite a while, but to me look like they'd be a pain to use very often; fine for someone who doesn't want to alter his gun, just hear it go "bang" a few times, but not for any half-way serious shooting.  I think making the cases as you've done is the proper way to go about it, despite all the trouble in doing so.

[ndnchf]

I had seen the .32 cases before, but maybe I missed the extra long version.  I'm good with my little #4 RRB centerfire conversion, but thinking about a larger rifle that fits me better like a #2 RRB.  There are a lot of those around in .32 rimfire.  The biggest problem I see with these cases is not the .22 blank as a primer, but the case wall thickness that would prevent a proper heel bullet from being used.  But now that I have a .299" case reamer, I could resolve that problem.  So I'm thinking that if these cases are long enough and close to the right OD, I could make them usable in an unaltered rifle.

[dusty texian]

A #2 sporting in 32 long rf would be cool to get shooting again.Have you had a chance to shoot the bp load's ?Hunting season is starting to wind down ,should have some time to get back on my 32 lc. bench gun project.My favorite time of yr. for gun project's and handloading is the next two months. ,,,,,Dusty

[ndnchf]

Dusty - I really like the #2 for size and proportion.  I really like my little #4 also, but I see a lot of #2s in .32 RF for sale and I think they would be a better fit and stronger.  But they are much rarer than #4s, so I'm reluctant to convert one to centerfire.  But if it is really feasible to use these cases to shoot them accurately with a properly fitted bullet, not just a round ball, then I may start looking seriously for a #2.

[dusty texian]

ndnchf I have seen some very fine #2 remington rollingblock's out there in 32rf. There is no doubt in my mind that with your experience at handloading 32's and obsolete cartridges in general ,you can make one shoot up to the preformance level  it was designed for. I have no experience with the .22 cal. primed rf cases. I have often wondered if they had blowback or blowby,at the .22 port location. If that part hold's tight they should shoot fine. w44wcf may jump in and fill us in, I want to say he once new of a source of primed .22 case's. Not sure. My memory is getting duller by the day.Planning on giving my little 32lc a workout during this upcomming varmint season. Used it on a couple fox a few month's back and the 90 gr. 299153 was deadly on Grey Fox at 35 yd. or so.Keep us posted Amigo,,,,,Dusty

[ndnchf]

Dusty – I forgot to say that I have not yet shot the 11gr (volume) of 3f loads.  I hope to get out to the range at the end of the week.  I imagine these will be more powerful than anything else I've shot in it.

I'm thinking that if I anneal these lathe-turned .32 rimfire cases I should be able to size them.  Like the big .58 Roberts lathe turned cases I'm using in the big rolling block, I think I can ream these to fit the Lyman 299153 bullet heel with the .299 reamer I got.  Many years ago I got some of this type of cases in .56 Spencer and they fired fine with no leakage at the .22 casing that I recall.  I don't yet have a rifle that I can fire these in, since my only .32 is converted to centerfire. But I can use the #4 to trial fit the cases.  If it seems feasible, I will start looking for a decent #2 in earnest.  So I will probably order a handful of cases after Christmas and see what I can do with them.  Here a shot I found on the web using .22 blanks as the primer.

[w44wcf]

It would appear that a better option is to use .27 cal power tool blanks since they cover most of the case head and are centered in the cartridge. Chev William had posted this link originally
http://32rimfire.blogspot.com/

ndnchf,
Balloon head cases (solid head button pocket type) were used in b.p. cartridges until the early 1950's after which they were replaced with modern brass.

Dusty,
The .22 LR primed cases were available for a short period of time from a distributor packaged 5,000 / box. They quickly ran out once the word got out. That was a few years ago.  When questioned if they were getting more in they indicated they would have to purchase 500,000 minimum from the manufacturer.  So no further cases were to be available...especially now with the panic buying of .22 L.R. ammuntion. 

Merry Christmas!
w44wcf

[ndnchf]

Using the ramset and drilled out cases does seem like a a good way to go.  I've read that blog before, but just re-read it.  It seems to me that the critical part of making these is cutting the depth of the recess for the ramset case, which is setting the headspace. With either these or the dixie cases, the other shortcoming is the inability to compress the powder, since the bullet is loaded first, then the powder and ramset/blank loaded last.  I don't know if it would be safe to load and compress in the ususal way. We do it all the time with centerfire primers, but I don't know how sensitive these ramsets are.

The photos on the DGW site of their reloadedable .32 cases is lousy, but it appears that the .22 blank hole is centered. 

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/popup_image.php?pID=8155

I wonder if the ramsets would work in the DGW cases?  Maybe I'll go to Home Depot this week and checkout the ramsets.  Maybe I can get some measurements of them.

[Adirondacker]

It would appear that a better option is to use .27 cal power tool blanks since they cover most of the case head and are centered in the cartridge. Chev William had posted this link originally
http://32rimfire.blogspot.com/
w44wcf

Using these looks like even more trouble than the Dixie cases--not only is it necessary to drill out the cases to fit these blanks, but it said he had to locktite them in place to prevent gas blow-by.  You'd also have to empty out the powder in the blanks if you were going to experiment with different powders. 

[ndnchf]

I stopped by Home Depot on the way home from work and picked up a box of green .27 cal Ramsets.  I'll make a trial case or two to see how they work. I'll probably order some Dixie cases also and determine which is best for my use.  I noticed that Home Depot has .22 ramsets that looked just like .22 blanks.  I think they may work in the Dixie cases.  They were cheap, about $6.50 per 100.

[ndnchf]

I know its Christmas Eve and I shouldn't be playing with old guns.  But the Mrs. and I went to Christmas service at Church, I took her out to dinner, we went and looked at Christmas lights and came home. All my wrapping is done, but she still has wrapping to do, so she says "go downstairs for a while".  That sounds like permission to go tinker in the shop, so I did.  I decided to see if I could make a reloadable .32 rimfire case per instruction s here:

http://32rimfire.blogspot.com/

So I set up one of my .32 Long Colt cases in the lathe and drilled out the hole for the Ramset using a 17/64" bit as instructed.  17/64" is .265".  I measured the diameter of a Ramset and it was .268".  So after drilling, the Ramset would not go in, and .003" is too much of an interference fit.  So I got out my cheapo adjustable reamer and reamed the hole to .268" for a snug sliding fit.



Next I drilled the recess for the Ramset rim using a 21/64" bit as instructed.  This is the critical step because the depth of this shoulder sets the headspace.  The Starline brass rim is .052" thick, so I wanted the same reading with the Ramset in place.  I would drill a little and test fit a Ramset, drill a little more and check again, over and over. 


It was going well until I noticed that the Ramset was not going further in after drilling.  So I measured the Ramset rim diameter and it was .331".  The 21/64" bit drills a .328" hole – Duh, no wonder the Ramset wouldn't go any further in.  Good thing I noticed this before drilling too deep.  So I selected the next larger size bit I had, 11/32", which is .344".  I continued to carefully drill deeper, maybe .010" at a time, checking the fit as I went.  Soon I had the Ramset in place and total thickness of case rim/Ramset was .052" – perfect.  The big test was putting it into my little #4 rolling block to see if the headspace was good and the block would lock in place.


It locked up just fine – success!  The only problem is my #4 is centerfire now, so I can't test fire it.  But the case/Ramset combination fits and seems to work.  It took a while to make the case, but the first one is always the most difficult.  Figuring out how to do everything and getting the right tools at hand etc.  If I make more of these, I need to figure out how to make a positive, precise drill depth stop to avoid the tedious trial and error method.  But other than that, it's a pretty straight forward process.  Time for some eggnog!

Merry Christmas my friends, thanks for the encouragement and advice!
Steve

[Old Top]

Ndnchf,

Be careful with those ramset blanks, they come in different charges I beleive that the brown is the lowest and red or purple is the highest.  If you are dumping the powder and just using the rimfire should be ok.  Enjoyed your article on how to adapt a centerfire to rimfire.

Old Top

[ndnchf]

Good point.  The green ones were the lowest power they had at Home Depot in .27 cal.  They did have brown .22s.  But I opened up the crimp a little and poured out the powder of 10 of them so they will be just primers.

[dusty texian]

Merry Christmas and Good Morning ndnchf. That look's like the .32 rf conversion turned out very nice. Do you think the primer will require the glue to help hold it in place or is the fit snug enough?. Wish you had my 92 Marlin over there for testing ,it has the rf fireing pin also.What did the powder that was in the .27 look like?

[Chev. William]

Dusty, ndnchf,
Powder tool loads (PTL) come in at least three calibers and at least twelve power ratings.
Below is a partial copy of information from another Forum and Thread on characteristics of PTL 'Blanks':

"Blanks have been used both in Europe and through Dixie Gun Works here to act as 'primers' in machined brass cartridges with offset chambers so the blank rim is positioned to be fired by the original RF firing pin. They are intended to be filled with Powder and have a bullet seated in them, the European ones use a heeled round nosed or semi-pointed nosed bullet and Dixie says theirs work with Round balls also.

Industrial Powder tool loads come in a range of power ratings from 1, the weakest, to 12, the strongest. They also come in two types of closures, Star crimped and roll crimp over a seal wad. I would think the Star crimped ones would work similar to the Olden Times Bench Rest shooters technique of loading a bullet then inserting a Cartridge with a wad crimped in the mouth, to get the bullet exactly positioned where they thought they would get maximum accuracy. The roll crimped ones could also be used but I would worry about wad residue left in the bore for the next round to find.
Wikipedia provides this list:
"Color-coding for the "rounds" or "single shots" (the three shot strengths or colors typically sold to the general public are brown, green and yellow in brass):
In brass casing:
Color-coding Velocity
(1)- Grey 315 ft/s (96 m/s)
(2)- Brown 385 ft/s (117 m/s)
(3)- Green 490 ft/s (150 m/s)
(4)- Yellow 575 ft/s (175 m/s)
(5)- Red 675 ft/s (206 m/s)
(6)- Purple 755 ft/s (230 m/s)

In nickel (silver) casings:
(7)- Grey 845 ft/s (258 m/s)
(Eight)- Brown 935 ft/s (285 m/s) (Edited to try to remove a icon that should no tbe here
(9)- Green 1,025 ft/s (312 m/s)
(10)- Yellow 1,115 ft/s (340 m/s)
(11)- Red 1,205 ft/s (367 m/s)
(12)- Purple 1,295 ft/s (395 m/s)"

I have also seen a listing for a intermediate loading with a brass case and Blue tip but do not remember it's place in this range of loadings. The velocity ratings obviously apply to some standard fastener and it's positioning in the tool and the tip to point of impact distance, as All Tool usage requires the 'muzzle' of the Tool to be in strong contact with the target point to release the safety and allow the tool to fire.

Loads are listed as available in .22, .25, and .27 calibers. In the past I have used .22 Grade 7 (Nickle with Gray Tip loads shaped like a .22 Shot shell) in a Ruger Standard Automatic with a machined steel 'furnace' or blank firing adapter attached to the muzzle in Military Training. It provided very reliable functioning of the action, a LOUD report, and at night a flame about 18 inches long. It made a very effective Attention Getting device for inattentive Sentries at night.

Current .22 Caliber Grade 2 Brown Tipped Load is in a case with the following measurements:
Rim diameter +.274"; Rim thickness =.040"; Body Diameter above rim =.225"; Body diameter just below shoulder =.224"; Neck Diameter =.205"; Height to bottom of shoulder =.354"; Height to top of shoulder =.378"; Height to bottom of star crimp =.483"; Overall Length =.503"; Head Stamp is "Super X", a Winchester-Western trademark. The shape is reminiscent of a .22 long rifle Shot shell but considerably shorter.

Current .25 Caliber Grade 3 Green Tipped load is in a case with the following measurements;
Rim diameter =.296"; Rim thickness =.047"; Body diameter =.244" to .245"; Overall Length =.398" to .399"; Height to bottom of star crimp = .287"; Head Stamp = "H" inside Circle (possibly Olin/Henry?).

Current .27 Caliber Grade 3 Green Tipped load is in a case with the following measurements:
Rim diameter =.329"; Rim thickness =.050; Body diameter =.2695" to .270"; Overall Length =.411"; Height to bottom of star crimp = .275"; Head stamp = "H" inside Circle (possibly Olin/Henry?).

Previous observations of a Grade 7 Gray on Nickel Loads showed it was in a .22 Long rifle length Shot shell case and would function through a .22 Long rifle chambered firearm easily and reliably. SAMMI Dimensions for the .22 Long Rifle Shot Cartridge are as follows;
Rim diameter = .278"; Rim thickness =.043"; Body Diameter =.226" cylindrical; Neck diameter =.217"; Height to bottom of shoulder =.6506"; Height to top of shoulder =.7078"; Height to bottom of star crimp = Not Listed; Overall Length =.990"."

I hope this information helps with the 'project'.
Merry Christmas to Everyone,
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Today, Christmas day, I won and paid for an Ebay auction for a Shilen Stainless Steel Match grade Rifle Barrel Blank.  It is stamped on the end "Shilen .308 S xx 6 8" and is listed as being about 26 inches long and 1.25 inch diameter with a .308 bore and 1:8 Twist.  I am thinking this will make a good Bench Rest .32 Long Colt Barrel for my Stevens 1915 Action.
Merry Christmas to all,
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[ndnchf]

Not sure if loctite would be needed to hold the Ramset in place or not.  But I'm thinking it would not be necessary if the BP is packed in tightly.  I would think that would hold it in place.  I'm not very familiar with smokeless powders, so I don't know what was in the Ramsets.  It is a very fine grained shiny gray powder, almost looks like graphite.  I read on another forum that someone thought it was Unique.  The case head is stamped with an "H" with a circle around it. 

Chev - thanks for posting all that data, it really helps to understand these things.  Much appreciated.