.32 Long Colt ,Need Help

[Chev. William]

It would be sweet if he can make a .32 collet crimper.  Chev - Let us know what you find out.

I received the following answer from Bernie today:

"I have crimp die for .32 long and short colt $45 about one week for delivery ship $6 and I have two heel bullet design a .312" 90 grain round nose and a 95 grain flat nose .314" and a hollow base .299" design. Double cavity heel bullet mould blocks $95 and hollow base $125
No cards check is ok.
Thanks
Bernie
Old West Moulds
1175 17 1/4 road
Fruita Co 81521"

Now I need to send a check and an order.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

PS: As of 1350 PDT today, my order for the Crimp die and check are out for Carrier pick up.  Chev. William

[Chev. William]

RE; the ordered "obviously cut down Model 44 barrel" previously referred to:

The previously listed "obviously cut down" Stevens Model 44 barrel in "25 ?" caliber arrived today.
It is what appears to be another 25-20 caliber barrel with almost all of the chamber cut off and the 'Spigot' nearly finished in its re-cut.
This 'spigot' has a .805" diameter next to the Octagon end about .55" long, then a 'thread relief' of about .76" Diameter and about .120" long followed by a threaded section .about .46" long then another smooth section .52" long and .75' diameter.
the next is a "cutoff' groove followed by a .72" diameter stub that contains the remainder of the original chamber, I think.  Overall the barrel measures 23-1/8" from muzzle to the 'cutoff' groove and 24" overall.
The round front portion measures 15-5/16" and the remaining Octagon section measures 6.00" long.

Bore was very dirty as received, but several passes with a bore brush followed by patches cleaned out the dirt and surface corrosion that may have been present.  It now looks shiny even before having an oiled patch run through it.
There is rifling visible full length of the barrel from muzzle to front of the chamber remainder. but it varies in visible depth, with the muzzle appearing to be the shallowest rifling. 
Slugged the barrel and it varied in force required over the length of barrel with both tight and loose spots detectible.  The dimensions seem similar to the previously reported barrel. 

The exterior is 'black rust' stained over most of it surface. 

The stamping is even shorter than it appeared in the photos with the Auction.  Mfg. markings end right at the beginning of the terminal "S" in 'Stevens, and just the left most tips of the second "S" in 'Mass.'.
The '25' caliber mark ends right at the rightmost tip of the "5".   The "serial number" on the bottom reads "34 067" and there is a "2" stamped in the bottom octagon flat.

It appears to be a good candidate for conversion to fit a Favorite Action, it is already too far gone to be used on a Model 44 with pride. Basically a 'cheap Core to use in making a useful object'.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[ndnchf]

I received the following answer from Bernie today:

"I have crimp die for .32 long and short colt $45 about one week for delivery ship $6 and I have two heel bullet design a .312" 90 grain round nose and a 95 grain flat nose .314" and a hollow base .299" design. Double cavity heel bullet mould blocks $95 and hollow base $125
No cards check is ok.
Thanks
Bernie
Old West Moulds
1175 17 1/4 road
Fruita Co 81521"

Now I need to send a check and an order.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

PS: As of 1350 PDT today, my order for the Crimp die and check are out for Carrier pick up.  Chev. William

That's great news.  I look forward to seeing your report and photos of how well it works.

[w44wcf]

Chev William,
Your idea of an adjustable pin would work and give the user the capability to adapt the pin to different length cases.

"It has been a long day, up at 0300 to get to worksite before 0630 then on 'duty' until 12.7 hours later, with a half hour for lunch, then a heavy traffic drive home lasting from before sunset until after full dark." THat is a loonng day. In my previous job, there were days that I might have to drive for 6-8 hrs. at a time. Plenty of time to think of future projects.......

Glad to hear that Bernie has a crimp tool utilizing the Lee FCD for the .32.

w44wcf

[Chev. William]

Yea!  My order and check are in the mails, and I received another Work Call, for 0630PDT Thursday so I have another long work day ahead.

Again my World is Good.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Today I received in the mail several things, The sample bullets and balls from W30wcf, a 30 Carbine New Lee "Factory Collette Factory Crimp die from one vendor, and a pair of push through bullet sizing dies from another.

I tried an experiment:
Set up the crimp die so it was compressed all the way to closing the 'slots' in the collet, plus a little.  Then used a CBC/Magtech .25ACP empty (.608" case length) as a spacer under one of Jack Harrison's reformed .32 S&W Long cases and ran it into the Crimper die to see what would happen.

The die squeezed the case down to between .308" and .310" in a four lobed pattern, possibly due to the collet being ground to work with a 30 Carbine round and NOT to be closed until it "Two Blocked".  I think these minimum crimp dimensions would work for the .32 Long Colt if the 'spacer' is set up to hold the case mouth at the point of maximum squeeze.  For the spacer I used, it seems to be about .765" to .770" up from the base.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Adirondacker]

Wonder if you'd get a tighter and/or more uniform crimp by rotating the case a half turn & crimping again?  Easy to try.

[Chev. William]

I do not think so as it is 'four fold symmetry' so rotating it half a turn would just put in a symmetrical position.
A 1/8th turn, on the other hand, would possibly allow a more circular crimp, but .002" variation is still pretty even of a crimp.

I have been asked by a good friend to transport him and his mobility scooter from his home to the Ontario, California Gun show on Saturday, Oct. 5th, so will be busy with that all day.  I hope to have some "looking time" at the show also.  the round trip will be about 150 miles for me.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Back home from the trip to the Ontario Ca Gun Show. 
I bought a "Full" box of Peters "Rustless" primer .32 Long Colt loaded with the 82 grain bullet.
The box is 'shrink wrapped' so I have not inspected the rounds in it.

I'm guessing but I believe these are the 'sub-caliber diameter' bullets with inside lube and the 'long' factory cases.
The box is marked on the back with both the Peters and Remington names so they were manufactured some time after Remington acquired Peters.  the box cost me $40.00.

I was also offered a box of Stevens Short RF for $80.00 but declined the purchase.

Mostly modern Ar style firearms and components on display and sale there, with several vendors doing the paperwork for a California Firearms Sale.  these purchases will have a ten day wait before permitted to pick up their purchase.

Overheard some talk of the proposed CA Assault Weapon legislation and the proposed High Capacity Bullet feeding device Legislation that raise Big Questions about the intelligence and sanity of the Legislators who supposedly Voted for the Bills.
Example; ANY Semi-automatic firearm capable of accepting 10 or more rounds in a Bullet feeding device is labeled an 'Assault Weapon' under the proposed legislation, supposedly including .22 Rimfire firearms???
Example: ANY bullet feeding device that can contain, OR APPEARS TO CONTAIN, more than ten rounds would be banned outright, and subject the possessor to fine and imprisonment or both for EACH SUCH Bullet Feeding Device???
Law Enforcement Officers are specifically exempt from 'most' of the proposed provisions.

This sound like "Knee Jerk" badly designed and drafted legislation, but seems the norm for the California State Assembly And Senate nowadays.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[ndnchf]

Chev - I'd say you got a bargain on that box of Remington Peter .32 LC.  I have a similar, but slightly (newer I think) box of Remington (in green box) kleanbore .32 LC with the hollow based 82 gr, inside lubed bullet.  I pulled one apart and it measured .299".  I shot about 15 of them and they were surprisingly accurate in my little RRB with .308" giroove size.

[Adirondacker]

A 10-day wait to pick up guns bought at a show?  Don't know how gunshows could even continue under such draconian conditions.  And I thought things were tough in the Empire State!

Unless those .32 Shorts were old enough to be loaded with BP, $80 is beyond ridiculous.  Any time I see ammo wrapped in plastic, I just keep walking, if I'm looking for something to shoot.

[Adirondacker]

 I have a similar, but slightly (newer I think) box of Remington (in green box) kleanbore .32 LC with the hollow based 82 gr, inside lubed bullet.  I pulled one apart and it measured .299".  I shot about 15 of them and they were surprisingly accurate in my little RRB with .308" giroove size.

Excellent upper target, but wonder what caused vertical stringing on lower target?  For the last several weeks (until the mainspring broke), I've been shooting a '94 Favorite in 22LR a LOT.  These fly-weight guns seem to require holding as firm as you'd hold with a hard-kicker; at least, that's my experience.  I was able to shoot better groups from a sitting position, holding it hard, than from the bench.  If my bad back allowed me to shoot prone, I'd have done it that way.

[ndnchf]

Excellent upper target, but wonder what caused vertical stringing on lower target?  

If I recall correctly, this was shot before I put the tang sight on it.  So that stringing is probably caused by my eyes not be as well focused on the sights or perhaps how tight I was holding it.  Its a tiny rifle and difficult for a big guy like me to get it tucked in tightly.  It does show that those undersized hollow based bullets do expand and grip the rifling well.

[Adirondacker]

Amazing what interesting information pops up when you slow down enough to read the fine print.  Ideal Handbook #5 has this to say about crimping 32 Long bullets when using their #1 tool:

"Outside lubricated bullets such as the 32 Short, Long, etc., cannot have the bullets fastened by crimping the shell upon them; they can only be held by fitting the shell tightly."

Regarding outside lubricated bullets, "the formation of the bullets are such (heel bullets) that they cannot be sized by passing them through a die; there is consequently no ball sizer."  In fact, that's the difference between their #1 & #4 tools--the latter has a sizer.

[ndnchf]

I read that too and wondered why you couldn't size a heeled bullet.  So I tried it in the .32 COLTs tool I picked up.  Its for the .32-20 and has a sizer.  I sized one of Jack's .315" bullets in it down to .311" and it worked fine.  Now of course, this isn't sizing the heel, just the driving bands.  I suppose that is what they are referring to.

[Adirondacker]

I read that too and wondered why you couldn't size a heeled bullet.  So I tried it in the .32 COLTs tool I picked up.  Its for the .32-20 and has a sizer.  I sized one of Jack's .315" bullets in it down to .311" and it worked fine.  Now of course, this isn't sizing the heel, just the driving bands.  I suppose that is what they are referring to.

For that matter, crimping could be done, just not with the #1 tool.  Heel bullets in a box of c.1910 Winchester smokeless 32s I have are crimped.  However, when the #5 was published, about 1892, 22LRs were still produced uncrimped.

[Chev. William]

Adirondacker,
RE: your comment about ten day waiting period.

POLITICAL COMMENT Follows:  It is difficult, my home precinct is about 70% Democratic Party.  Los Angeles City, Los Angeles County, and the "Peoples Democratic Republic of California" are all controlled by the Democratic Party, from 58% to Around 70% depending on the political district.
END POLITICAL COMMENT.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[w44wcf]

I finally had a chance to make some bullets with the new mold and load some cartridges.
Hopefully I'll get a chance to do some testing next week.

Here's a quick photo



299153 / 31-090S / 31-090A

w44wcf

[dusty texian]

Hey w44wcf that is a nice looking bullet. Keep us posted . ,,,,,Dusty

[Adirondacker]

Hey w44wcf that is a nice looking bullet. Keep us posted . ,,,,,Dusty

Especially the two flat-points.  In their effect on small game, those little flats make a BIG difference...which I discovered by comparing the performance on game (arboreal deer, that is) of round-point 32 S&W vs. flat-point 32 Colt New Police.  I was so impressed I had a machinist friend make a die into which I inserted factory 32 S&W rounds and then filed off the exposed round points.  (This was before I bought dies for reloading.  And also because 32 Colt New Police is hard to find.)  Have a second die for doing the same to round-point 22LR.