NEW to CAS - Need help deciding between Ruger and Uberti/ .45 LC vs. .357

[blackjack1977]

Sorry, I know this question has probably been asked to death on here, but I could use some unique insight. At the moment I an torn between getting a pair of Uberti Cattleman revolvers or a single Ruger New Vaquero. My budget will only allow for about $900 and that is not enough to get two Vaquero's, but it is enough to snag a pair of Uberti Cattleman's at just over $400 each. I like the look of the Uberti's, but the durability of the Ruger New Vaquero is appealing as well. I have been finding myself see-sawing back and forth between one or the other for a couple of weeks now. I want to use the guns to get into CAS, but they will need to serve a home defense purpose as well to appease my wife. If I get the Ruger, then it will probably be another couple of months before I can budget enough to get a second one. So, you can see my dilemma here. I dont want to buy the Uberti's and then regret that I didnt get the New Vaquero later.

Then there is the question of caliber. I love the idea of going with the .45LC for authenticity, but I do not reload (and dont anticipate it in the near future), so if I'm not reloading, is it alot more cost effective to go with the .357/.38 Special?

 

[flyingcollie]

I prolly shouldn't answer this one, 'cuz I was just about in your shoes before I decided and got a pair of Cimarron (Uberti) model P's, 5-1/2" barrel .45LC pistols.

Looks to me as if the majority of "serious" CAS competitors favor the Ruger Vaqueros. I do it for fun, and being more in tune with the traditional Colts (I've got a 2nd gen '73 Colt .45 and a pair of 2nd gen '51 Navies) I don't "dig" Ruger's transfer bar mechanism.

FWIW, the fit, finish, actions and trigger pull on the new guns are better than my old Colt .45.

The cost of ammo keeps going up, I don't know offhand how much one "saves" shooting .357 or .38sp as opposed to .45 LC . . .  either caliber should be adequate "home security", but if you're going to shoot "cowboy", I'd say you'd best get into reloading. Buy the Ubertis and spend the rest on reloading gear ! 

[Tornado]

First the easy one, if you don't reload and don't plan on starting then go with the 38/357.

I bought my New Vaquero first and it is a perfect CAS pistol. For my second pistol, I decided I didn't want another identical pistol.  I now have three pistols and working on a fourth.  My point being if you are not a in-it-for-the-win type of person then you may want some variety.

[blackjack1977]

First the easy one, if you don't reload and don't plan on starting then go with the 38/357.

I bought my New Vaquero first and it is a perfect CAS pistol. For my second pistol, I decided I didn't want another identical pistol.  I now have three pistols and working on a fourth.  My point being if you are not a in-it-for-the-win type of person then you may want some variety.

I have a neighbor who reloads and I was thinking of asking him about letting me use his equipment from time to time, but I simply dont have room in my house for all of the equipment necessary to get into reloading. I wish I did. Maybe once my kids grow up and move away I'll have room, but until then I'm limited on my space.

Also, once I begin competing in CAS, it is going to be for fun. I'm not looking to get into this for pure competition sakes. I'm just an American history buff who loves the history and guns of the old west and am looking forward to the atmosphere and comraderie that comes with competing in CAS.

After really thinking it through last night and weighing all the options, I've decided to go with the New Vaquero in .357/.38. I do love the idea of having non-identical pistols. Something very authentic about that to me. I'm certain that there weren't many people in those times who sported an identical pair of pistols on their belts.

[Shotgun Franklin]

If you have an area the size of a small closet then you have room to reload. Don't let the big areas some have scare you off. I used to clamp a single stage press to the end of our dining room table. One pistol caliber round just doesn't take much room.

As for the guns, as much as I can I try for historical accuracy, not I'm not perfe4ct but try. For hunting or just a carry gun the Rugers are OK. The Cattleman is much closer to 'real' than the Ruger.

[Jefro]

Howdy Blackjack1977, the advice I always give, is.......before you buy anything for CAS start going to as many local matches as you can find. Get ahold of the MD, usually they can have some gear for you to try, plus folks at the matches will be handing you guns to try, it's just something we do,,,,try before you buy. The Ruger is a great gun and built like a tank. The Colt replicas are a little lighter and feel entirely different at the grip,,,,,,so try before you buy. I prefer the Colt style, a set of Gunslinger springs, a little smoothing and you have a great shooting gun.
   As for reloading, it's something you will wind up doing. It doesn't really take up a lot of space depending on what you buy. I starting reloading on a Lee Classic turret and Mec 600 jr. in the corner of the dining room on a little typewriter table with a fold up leaf, kept all my supplies under it in a cardboard box. Later I got a progressive Hornady L-N-L and a Mec Grabber and was still able to use the little table. In fact I still use today for my two lubesizers. Good Luck

#1 mistake made by new shooters-----------buying guns and gear without ever trying them first
#2 mistake made by new shooters-----------building a big heavy monster of a gun cart


Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[Okefinokee Outlaw]

You could participate in an NCOWS match with one pistol and one rifle; that's the Working Cowboy class.  Some posses allow one pistol and one shotgun, known as the Sodbuster class.

[Okie Sawbones]

A lot of CAS is personal preference. ALL revolvers are fine for the distances we shoot. I have USFA, Uberti, and Colts in .38 and .45. It is a lot cheaper to reload .38. All of the pistols shoot fine. I've had more clean matches with the Evil Roy Ubertis FWIW. I'd stick with a 73 or Marlin for the rifle initially. A Stoger is fine for an entry shotgun, but I love my BSS.

[HolliferADollar]

I started cowboy shooting with a pair of Uberti Hombres in 45LC.  The only work I did to them was to put in a set of Wolff springs.  Dead reliable, good shooters, still my main match guns.  I shoot FC duelist, so I have recently added the lowered Runnin' Iron hammers to them.

Last year my girlfriend (Kay Sadeeya) started cowboy shooting & I bought a pair of Ruger old model Vaqueros in 357 for her.  They had been worked over, smooth as silk.  Also really nice guns, great shooters but I personally prefer the Hombres because they are big bore guns.

You won't go wrong with the Cattleman revolvers, that difference in price would be the decider for me.

Holler

[Red Cent]

You mention budget. Years ago I would be engaged by newbies for hours. These days I simply get down to it. You need to price the rifle, the shotgun, the shoes/boots, hat(s), the holster rig and a shotgun belt. Entry fee, gas, and, maybe, food.

Every match will require 120 rounds of rifle and pistol. Usually just short a box shotgun shells.

If you get bit badly, then the reloading starts. This can be accomplished rather inexpensively albeit with a slow reloading machine.

I am not trying to rain on your parade, but this ain't a cheap game. Reminds me of the guy setting acroos the table at 2:00 that pushes his chips to the middle and declares "I'm all in."

PS: Please don't buy a 92 amd definitely not a 94, They will not run with a Marlin or 73. At least until Nate does his magic on the '92.. After you look at the '73s and the Marlins, and you think you can do with a '92, contact Nate Kiowa Jones. Stevesguns.com World known 92 specialist.  Uh-oh. I forgot the cost of action jobs on the firearms.


http://www.stevesgunz.com/

[flyingcollie]

Red Cent, that's mighty sensible advice. It could be sorta spendy I guess, just to "start cold", buying two pistols, a rifle, shotgun, leather, ammo and a "costume", plus the "upkeep", club dues, fees, travel, grub, etc., etc. and a feller better realize what that costs "up front".  Here's the deal, though - I don't reckon it's any more expensive than any other hobby/pastime that involves investing in some kind of equipment . . . fishing, camping, boating, climbing, rodeo, scuba diving . . . you name it, hobbies can be expensive in $$ but well worth the money spent in terms of satisfaction  . . .  better than drinkin' it up ! 

[Bugscuffle]

Most people think of it as a triangle. Cost, Quality, Speed...................Pick any TWO, but if you really look at it, it really isn't that way. It only sort of is. You'll have to be very realistic about what you want. You say now that you are in this just for fun, but the first time that you see that you have finished number 23 out of 28 shooters, you are going to want to "slick" those guns up a little. Partner, that costs money. The slicker you want them the more it costs. If you have a Ruger, there are more and higher priced and better "slicks" (not necessarily the same I might add) that you can put on them. You ARE going to spend money and you are going to spend A LOT MORE than you think that you are going to spend, but when it comes to spending, be what area you spend it on. At first you are NOT going to be competitive with any guns. It wont matter if you have the newest shiniest, half round, sliding sumamugun in the world. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE COMPETITIVE. So, spend your money on ammo or better yet some reloading gear and shoot about 5,000 rounds or so. That way you can become competitive and you will be competitive with just about any gun that will shoot. As to the caliber, shoot what makes you happy. The really fast shooters will shoot .38 Specials to reduce the recoil and recovery time, but you can load the .45 L.C. down to pussy cat levels too, if you reload. I highly recommend reloading. I reload .45 L.C. for about $9.50 for a box of 50. The 357 MAG/.38 Spec. are about the same price to reload. .357/.38 brass is easier to find and is usually cheaper, but you can reuse brass a number of times, especially at CAS shooting pressures, etc. Get some advice from seasoned reloaders and look into the Lee line of reloading gear. It's the most economical and will reload ammo to far better tolerances than is required for CAS shooting. You can have a complete turret reloading set up for well under two hundred dollars and you'll pay for it in reduced ammo cost in four or five hundred rounds. It helps if you are reloading only one caliber, so try to get your pistols and your rifle in the same caliber.

[Red Cent]

Flyingcollie, welcome to the most enjoyable game in the world. 

[flyingcollie]

Red, thank you kindly for the welcome !

It's kind of funny how I came to get hooked up with CAS. I bought a '73 Colt .45 over 40 years ago . . . shot a '94 Winchester 30-30 for about as long, and a 20ga side-by-side about as long. A couple of years ago, I picked up an Uberti "Schofield" in .45 LC, just because that top-break action has always knocked my sox off.

'Bout the time I bought the Colt, I got into re-loading, but let it slip through the years, just buying a box of shells whenever I wanted to "plink", which wasn't all that frequent. Getting the Schofield repro got me shooting again, and by then, I had over a thousand rounds of empty brass . . . a gun-nut buddy got me up and running again, and informed me that I was a "cowboy shooter" (I'd never heard of it at that point)

The Lord provided an article in the local paper about the CAS group near me, and first time I shot with them, I have to admit it was the most fun I've had on a shooting range in a long time. Being kind of a cheap-skate, I'd never shot a lot at any one time . . . at the match, it was like, "Hey, go ahead and burn through that box of ammo !! Hell, burn through TWO !! It's perfectly Okay !

As for the "costume" . . . well, that's how I've always dressed, so no big change there . . . 

Through the last year, I picked up a '94 Marlin in .45 LC, a "partner" for the C&B '51 Colt Navy I've had for 45 years, and a "front stuffer" percussion shotgun, which I shoot in the matches just to be "difficult". I've been alternating between the .45s and the Navies in our informal local matches.

About 18 months back, I started a long 2yr old filly, and got the bug to try shooting mounted. My bride wanted to give me a pair of short-barrel .45s for that, so that's where the "research" into the Uberti offerings comes in. I'm having a LOT of fun with all of this, and I'm mighty grateful for all the friends I've made, and especially for all the friendly, helpful conversations on these boards.

You guys are the greatest !! I hope to be able to meet some of you in person sometime !

[Kristian]

Hi Blackjack, like you I am new to the game.
I asked around a lot, loaned and tested as much as I could, and decided on stainless vaqueros. In hindsight, I probably should have bought Bisley style vaqueros, since the small grip on the New model doesn't quite fit my hands. So the advice I'd like to give you is: Try to try out new model, old model, bisley and birdshead vaqueros before you make up your mind.

Riflewise I went with an Uberti1873. I decided to cry once, and like the rugers, that's the model that was suggested to me, and I liked it.

Shotgun is my next project, I just tried out a Baikal that I'll buy.

Good luck, and don't forget to try out different holster manufacturers and models too!

I recommend Boothill Bob, here in Sweden, Dunno what he charges in shipping though...

[Bibbyman]

I bought a pair of Uberti Cattleman 45 Colt 5.5 barrels because I have 40 years experience with Colt SAA 45 5.5 barrels.  Mary just got started and bought a pair of Cattleman 358/38 with 4.75 barrel. 

Our mistake was not connecting with the cowboy action shooting world and buying hand me downs.  We went to a state shoot and could have bought everything we needed at better prices. But bring cash. Lots better considering no shipping and taxes. Seems every serious CAS shooter is always evolving their equipment.   Also, there are often people getting out of CAS because of age, health or just lost interest.

[MarshalMiller]

I wish I did. Maybe once my kids grow up and move away I'll have room, but until then I'm limited on my space.

Just wanted to chime in on this one.  I first started reloading when I lived in a one bedroom apartment. had a bedroom, bathroom and a combo kitchen/livingroom/diningroom.  Not much room at all.  I picked up the Lee classic turret kit and a tumbler.  For reloading table I went with a table from Harbor Freight that has a ruler printed on 2 sides of it that are 18"s, the total dimensions are maybe 19 or 20" square.  It spent most of it's life in a closet, coming out into the living room when I loaded.  Now a few years later I'm in my own home, but I still use that reloading table.  It stays in the office now, unless I want to listen to a movie when reloading, in which case it finds it's way to the living room.  Reloading really doesn't take up a lot of room unless you let it.  I'm now reloading .45LC, .45 auto, .30-06, and .223.

[TheOtherLeft]

Who needs lot of space for reloading? Can you spot my creature comforts...



I am new to SASS and have only competed in 2 club matches so far but watched quite a few matches prior to buying my guns and leathers. It does definitely hurt the wallet but I figure it's a once off. Here in Australia we have a limited range of single action pistols to choose from so the choice was easy. A shotgun was an easy choice with the Stoeger being the cheapest gun to buy. The Uberti 1873 levergun, whilst expensive is the most reliable out of the box, as it would be very annoying if I have an unreliable gun which then needs a gunsmith. Plus the case-hardened Special Sporting Special looks fantastic.

[Bibbyman]

I'll second that.  I started with a Lee manual loading kit  in the box about the size of a paperback book.  I later got carried away but still have a stack of Lee manual kits.  I still load a lot with the Lee hand press kit. The whole kit fits in a box not as big as a boot box. You don't even have to have a table.  I just set in my recliner and watch TV.  I'll size, bell and prime while watching TV, but give total attention to powder changing.  I use loading blocks and charge 50 at a time and double check under a good light to make sure that none are missed or double charged.

[Red Cent]

He is hooked!! Set the line! Jerk! Jerk!!

The addiction is an abomination. It over whelms you. Some just lose yourself accumulating the pieces. 'Course I was a rock. A veritable rock. I held steady and over the years a piece here in there. Now if you want someone to help you control yourself just call. I can be a big help.