Feeling the itch...may need to scratch it soon

[Dakota Widowmaker]

All,

I am getting more and more interested in a Spencer repligun.

My Henry goes with me every time I head to the range for practice or to compete...

Now, I am thinking a Spencer carbine would look just perfect in my locker along or equally at home in the trunk of my car when going to the range.

I have been reading alot of posts...is there any loads one can think of that deal with smokeless for those of us who have to shoot indoors for 7 months out of the year? I am looking more towards the 56-50 than anything else...

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Howdy pard,

GET IT!

My 56-50 Taylor's is my favorite gun, old or modern.  I plan on using it pig hunting and deer hunting!  Might even figure out a way to make shot shells for quail!

[Hell-Er High Water]

DW,

In my Taylor's 56-50  I have been using 23.5 gr of IMR 4227 with a 335 grain bullet and Winchester large rifle primers in Starline brass.  This load is approaching max as 1 - 1.5 grains higher and the primers started to flatten a bit.  This load turned out to be more accurate than the higher loads anyway.  I tried Unique, 5744, IMR4198 & SR4759 powders with varying degrees of success but IMR 4227 worked the best for me.  This load fills most of the case so powder position is not a problem.  If you are using a heavier bullet like the Rapine 512-350-T you should probably reduce the powder charge by 2 - 3 grains for starters.  The 335 grain bullet that I use is the Lee 500 gr design that I cut the mold down on by machining off two bands and grooves.

Hope that this helps and good shooting

Rich Heller
Napa, CA

[Black River Smith]

If you can, 'give in'.  I have admired the Spencer since 1969, when I first saw one.  Never could find original in 'my' price budget.  But I am glad I broke down and bought the Taylor.  Just a lot of history built in that on type of rifle.

Black River Smith

[Dakota Widowmaker]

DW,

In my Taylor's 56-50  I have been using 23.5 gr of IMR 4227 with a 335 grain bullet and Winchester large rifle primers in Starline brass.  This load is approaching max as 1 - 1.5 grains higher and the primers started to flatten a bit.  This load turned out to be more accurate than the higher loads anyway.  I tried Unique, 5744, IMR4198 & SR4759 powders with varying degrees of success but IMR 4227 worked the best for me.  This load fills most of the case so powder position is not a problem.  If you are using a heavier bullet like the Rapine 512-350-T you should probably reduce the powder charge by 2 - 3 grains for starters.  The 335 grain bullet that I use is the Lee 500 gr design that I cut the mold down on by machining off two bands and grooves.

Hope that this helps and good shooting

Rich Heller
Napa, CA

I do have access to a lathe, so, I could drop the mould into it and turn down what I need...

The question is, do you use this for the Taylors spencer or an orginal with a center fire block?

[Tuolumne Lawman]

I think he is talking about a .515 diameter 50-70 bullet.  .515s do work in the Taylor, though the Lyman Taylor dies are set for .512s, which is what the Taylor's is designed for.  Buffalo Arms has an excellent .512/350 BAC custom mold ($75) that works awesome in the Taylors.  I got it instead of the Lymann .515/350, mostly because the Lyman was out of stock.  After I got the BAC mold, though, I found that it is the same mold they use to make the .512/350s they sell SPG lubed.  This is an awesome bullet, and I had great accuracy with it. 

Another advantage to the BAC .512/350 is that it does not seem to seat as deep as the Lymann, allowing for more powder capacity.  This is achieved by having a more rounded ogive than the Lymann.  With the Laymann bullets, I used a Lee 2.2 CC dipper of Hodgdon's Triple Seven, giving about 37.5 grains (volume) which is equivilent to about 42 of FFG Goex.  With the BAC bullet, I can use a Lee 2.5 CC dipper, or about 39 to 39.5 (volume) of tripple Seven.  That should equal about 44 grains or so of Goex.

The most Goex I ever got in a 56-50 case was about 39-40 grains of FFG, using a drop tube and heavy compression.  The Triple seven gives more bang for the buck.

[Dakota Widowmaker]

If I drop the fresh cast bullets into cold water, I get my 38-55 to drop down .001-.002"...I figure this would be good enough for the spencer.

I am wondering if the trimmed down Lee mould would have enough lube groves to keep fouling down.
(I am only shooting 7rds...not for SASS/NCOWS matches but for fun)

If I get my commission check, and its big enough, I will be ordering a spencer for my birthday. (present to myself)

IT will be a 56-50.

[Hell-Er High Water]

Hi,

The modified Lee mould that I am using started out life as their 515-500-F.  I size this bullet to 0.512" and lube it with a homemade lube that I have been using for years with smokeless loads.  I have used this bullet with black powder but the Rapine bullet, with SPG lube, is more accurate for me when using black.  I am shooting a Taylor's 56-50 that I have had for about a year and a half.  If you need any specifics on the various loads that I have tried, or the ones that I am presently using, let me know or send me an eMail.

Rich Heller
Napa, CA

[Dakota Widowmaker]

I am curious how you seat the modified Lee bullets vs. the Rapine.

I would like a bullet configuration that doesn't push the bullets into the cases after being loaded into the mag tube.

It also needs to feed well...

In so doing, I am assuming that you crimp on driving band, either right behind it or right in front of it.
(if you crimp in front of it, then there is a higher chance of the bullets getting set back into the case)

I am not looking to knock down elephants with it...335gr would be sufficient for anything I would do.

also, what would be a good set of dies to go along with this? I certainly like the price of the lyman dies over that of the RCBS...$200 difference

[Tuolumne Lawman]

I use Lymann dies.  Taylors, Buffalo, etc. have them  $40 or so.

The BAC .512/350 has a crimp groove that lines up perfect case length and keeps the bullet in place even with smokeless. 

[Hell-Er High Water]

DW,

With the modified Lee bullet, I seat it to an overall cartridge length of 1.630" with the case crimped in the top of the top lube groove.  My latest edition of Cartridges Of The World shows that the original Spencer rimfire 56-50 had an overall cartridge length of 1.632".  One of the criteia that I established for myself before I modified the mould was to have an OAL of approximatly that of the original.  I figgured that this would minimize feeding problems, realizing that the original were pointed type bullets with the rim fire case and these were to be flat points with the center fire case so that feeding may not be as smooth as with the originals.  This has worked out OK and the feeding from the magazine is positive as long as the action is worked smartley.  The Rapine bullet is crimped into the crimp groove for an OAL cartridge length of 1.510" - 1.515" and it feeds fine also.  One of the reasons for choosing the Lee mould to modify was that this bullet has a large, flat meplate and I just felt it would be safer with a magazing full under my chin than with a more pointed bullet.

I use Lyman dies.  I had to send them back to Lyman to be modified, as Tuolumne Lawman noted in his post, but since their return they have worked fine.  I must have had an early set of dies before they got the bugs worked out.

Rich