Holster Sizing, Ruger vs Vaquero

[BobbyF]

I have a Ruger New Model Blackhawk .357, 6.5 barrel that I want to make a holster for (first one). Tandy has a pattern called the El Dorado,which is to fit all Vaqueros. It does not specifically mention the Blackhawk. I e-mailed Ruger, they said it should fit. I was hoping someone would have a more definitive answer. I have not ruled out making my own pattern, but I thought the Tandy one would help.
     Thank you for any help-BobbyF

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Patterns for the Vaquero will have to be modified for the New model Ruger Blackhawk, because of the adjustable sights in most cases, the upper part of the bucket front can be cut away to allow for these adjustable sights, Will Ghormley's patterns usually offer patterns for the old model Vaquero, I find these better for the Blackhawk and have made several with great results.  hope this helped...

 tEN wOLVES  

[bedbugbilly]

For  what it's worth - I've got a New Vaquero and I used Will's West Texas holster pattern for the Colt SAA as a basis for the bucket and it fit fine.  As Ten Wolves points out - you've got the rear sight on the Blackhawk to worry about but it should be an easy modification to allow just a little more for that if you want it to fit (the sight) in the bucket.  Otherwise, as TW suggests, you can just modify the top front of the bucket so that the sight is exposed - I've done that on a number of holsters for revolvers that have adjustable rear sights as opposed to the typical grooved frame top sight.

You mention this is your first holster - so will add this.  Once you get your pattern made - if the bucket design is such that the adjustable rear sight is going to be in the bucket . . . . . find the center "fold line" of your pattern and place your pistol (unloaded of course   ) on the pattern so that the grip is pointed towards the ceiling and the front sight and the center of the rear sight is directly on the center line.  Then, carefully roll the pistol over on the side (make sure it doesn't move on the pattern) and the outline of the holster pattern should give you a good idea of how the pistol will fit in the bucket in regards to enough room in relation to the top sight and the bottom of the trigger guard.  Use the margin on the lower part of the bucket in regards to the frame, barrel/ejector housing and compare it to the area of the trigger guard.  This should give you an indication of just about how much to add in that area - if any.  Hopefully this is a little clearer than mud?   

:)Another method I sometimes use is to take a piece of scrap leather strip - say 3/4" wide by 16 or so inches in length.  I fold it in half and make a mark on where the center is.  Then I take the strip - lay the center point directly on the center line of the pistol - in your case - on top of the rear sight in the exact center.  Fold it over (wrap around the pistol) and pinch both ends of the strip (one end will be under the pistol, the other over the pistol as the pistol lays on its side) and pinch together under the triggerguard which should be the widest point.  With it pinched - figure enough extra for the stitch line and the margin between that and the edge of the buvcet and then make a mark on the strip to represent the edge of the bucket.  Remove it, place the center mark of the strip on the center line of your pattern and see where the mark you made to represent the edge of the bucket falls on your pattern - this should tell you about what you need to add (or subtract in some cases) to make the bucket the correct size.  You can do this on different areas of the pistol to take accurate measurements - i.e. around frame, around barrel/losding lever or ejector housing, etc.  - works the same for semi-autos as well.

You will probably be wet moulding your holster to the gun after you get the holster together - at that time, you can stretch the leather a little bit if need be but how much "stretch" is going to depend on how tight the pistol fits, thickness of leather used, etc.

Good luck and let us know how it works out for you - we'd all love to see some photos when you're done.   

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I have used both methods suggested by bedbugbilly to make patterns.  I have a lot of unique items!  The strap method is outlined in a soft cover book from Tandy called YEE HAW.  It suggests that the strap be from the same thickness of leather as you plan to use for the holster.  The pinch Billy mentions should extend 3/4 of an inch from the firearm according to the book.

I have an El Paso Saddlery "Duke" holster made for the SAA.  My NM Vaquero fits, just a mite snug.  I figure you can use almost any SAA pattern, making allowance for any interference by the adjustable sights

[Cliff Fendley]

The rear adjustable site is not always much of a problem, the front sight deserves more attention.

Minor notching or molding usually fixes any rear sight problem but the front sight is much taller on the BH and if the toe area of the holster is does not allow the holster has to be larger which also can effect the loops on mexican loop style holsters.

Many of my patterns are different for BH and the Vaquero.

[Red Cent]

Cliff is spot on. That tall sloping front sight will cause you grief if you don't watch. When you start to wet form the holster to the BlackHawk, tape a pencil or dowel rod to the top of the barrel. 'Course it should be big enough to be a little higher (just a touch) as the front sight and it should come back to the frame. Whittle a finishing slope as it nears the frame. Don't ask.

[Massive]

One thing you might want to consider is that the Will Ghormley patterns, are probably more relevant than the older Tandy patterns and they have multiple patterns that cover both Vaqueros, and a bunch of other guns.  My understanding is that the old V is a better model for the Blackhawk, while the new one is the same pattern as for the Colt 1873, and others.

That said, to make a truly fabulous first holster to the quality of a pro product (one hopes), you may need to budget a little to run some prototypes.  I am on my first band holster, and I got the holster pretty much right out of the box, but I am on the third band.  This is number 2.


Of Will's patterns, I think the Duke is the most versatile, it basically makes up into a holster you could do CAS with, but isn't a gamer special.  Some of the more authentic patterns pretty much loose a pistol, which offers more protection for those who carry in the field, far more than they practice speed routines.  If you want an outright comp holster, you may want to cut one of the patterns down, wich is what I did with the one in the center.  It started out as a Flames of Hell

[BobbyF]

I have to thank the Possie:  Ten Wolves, Bedbug, Sir Charles, Cliff, Red Cent and Massive. I couldn't have asked for a better reply.I got my answer with explanations and great explanations of new techniques that I will use on this project and others in future. It is like going to school but for fun stuff. Massive, yours looks great, I really like the two tone look and I hope mine turns out as nice. Thanks all-BobbyF

[Freedom]

I have measured them  closely.

The "NEW" model Vaquero is smaller in just about every way, than the BlackHawk, OLD model Vaquero, and SBH ....But I use the same pattern for all four. Your Vaquero pattern will work just fine....but keep in mind if the pattern was made for 8oz leather and you are using 12oz, you may want to add just a little (1/4') to you pattern width.

Having the proper gun on-hand to wet mould to is really handy because it sure helps to get a better fit and to get retention strap length right.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I haven't done this for awhile but i did make holsters for my OMVs and for a SAA clone.  I made the patterns from scratch.  Comparing them afterwards, I noted that the OMV pattern was 1/8 inch larger all around. In other words, I agree with that 1/4 inch larger dimension.

[Massive]

I measured a holster pattern and the difference between the width of the new and old V was 3% or 5/16" in total width.  That is the whole width of the pattern not just one side.