Stuck screw 1861 Navy

RWK · April 22, 2013, 10:17:49 AM

Stuck screw 1861 Navy

Navy was made in the 1970s

The Main spring screw is stuck tight

Placed frame in vise used a proper fitting screw driver and a 6 inch Crescent wrench.
I put a lot of torque on it and it didn't move

It is steel into brass for 35 to 40 years, someone said it could be fussed. And I could break it off

I did find a way to take it apart and back together without taking the screw out. So I wouldn't have to do anything unless main spring breaks.
See Photos

Any Ideas

Thanks

St. George · April 22, 2013, 10:37:52 AM

Try a penetrating agent like 'Kroil'.

Put it on and let it sit - then give it a rap or two with a plastic mallet, and let it sit some more.

Repeat.

You can also warm the area with a torch - but only enough to make it hot to the touch - nothing more.

Good Luck!

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

Pettifogger · April 22, 2013, 10:54:23 AM

Put the frame in a vise so that the area directly below the screw is fully supported. Get a properly fitting screwdriver tip, put it in one of these and give it a tap. This is probably the single most valuable gun tool I have. One thing you have to be careful of is that the threads can easily strip out of the brass of the screw is really tight. (The cresent wrench may already have done some damage.) To make sure there is no loc tite from a previous owner, I would also heat the area and use the impact driver while it is still hot. Heat the brass but don't put any heat directly on the spring or it might lose its temper. (Not a big deal since the springs are easily replaced.) You can also heat the area and then pull on the top of the spring COUNTERCLOCKWISE. It can be a pretty good lever to loosen that screw.

Forgot the link. Here it is. http://www.harborfreight.com/7-piece-reversible-impact-driver-set-93481.html

Fingers McGee · April 22, 2013, 11:47:33 AM

Quote from: Pettifogger on April 22, 2013, 10:54:23 AM
You can also heat the area and then pull on the top of the spring COUNTERCLOCKWISE. It can be a pretty good lever to loosen that screw.

That has always worked for me.

RWK · April 27, 2013, 10:14:00 AM

Update

Trigger guard soaked in Kroil for 5 days. I also notice the bottom grip screw intersects main spring screw. So the Kroil should have work very good.

Placed grip in aluminum jaws with 3x5 cards to protect the brass grip

Headed the grip till the paper turned brown (I don't want to take the temper out of the main spring.) with a heat gun.

Placed a 4 inch wrench on the screw driver. Used the wrench for leverage and tapped on the screw driver with a small hammer

She won't budge. She won't budge. She won't budge.

So this is how I am going to take this apart

Loosen the 3 screws holding down on the trigger guard. Take pressure off main spring and remove the 3 screws

To put it back together

Start small screw it till it's tight and back it off. Place Main spring under hammer
Compress and hold trigger guard and screw in 2nd screw then 3rd screw

When the main spring goes bad I will drill it out and retap it.

Thanks for help

Pettifogger · April 27, 2013, 10:53:03 AM

You didn't try moving the spring. Hold a screwdriver in your right hand, push down and turn. At the same time grab the top of the spring with your left hand and give it a pull. This will break loose most main springs.

Forty Rod · April 28, 2013, 08:17:19 PM

Quote from: Fingers McGee on April 22, 2013, 11:47:33 AM
That has always worked for me.

And for me.

RWK · May 01, 2013, 11:25:46 AM

Wow

I tried most of the suggestion. I tried using the Main spring as a lever at least 6 times.
I don't want to break off

So this is how I am going to take this apart

Loosen the 3 screws holding down on the trigger guard. Take pressure off main spring and remove the 3 screws

To put it back together

Start small screw it till it's tight and back it off. Place Main spring under hammer
Compress and hold trigger guard and screw in 2nd screw then 3rd screw

When the main spring goes bad I will drill it out and retap it.

Tough crowd you guys are.

Quote from: Seth Hawkins on April 28, 2013, 04:21:45 PM
Yeah. It sounds like you didn't try any of the suggestions offered.

With the triggerguard OFF of the gun, hold the triggerguard in one hand, and turn the main spring with the other hand in a counter-clockwise direction (the same direction you would turn the screw to loosen it when facing the screw). I can all but guarantee you this will loosen things up enough that you can then use a screwdriver to remove that screw.

Major 2 · May 02, 2013, 05:20:18 AM

Wonder if someone used LOCTITE 26221 (Red) $:-\$

one last try , bring the part to boil , then while it's hot , try applying an ice cube on the screw head only while adding steady pressure counter clockwise to the spring.

Whiskey Banjo · May 02, 2013, 07:17:57 AM

Id say that screw is gaulded...probably not gonna come out without snapping the head off unless u get real crafty with a torch and impact driver.. but its gonna pull the threads out with it if u dont snap the head off. Once a screw or bolt is gaulded there's really no way to fix it besides drilling and re-tapping. Or inserting new threads. Brass will make it very tricky. I wouldnt mess with it to be honest unless u have to.. cuz thats a big can of worms about to be opened if ur not very careful.

Coffinmaker · May 03, 2013, 11:43:40 AM

Very interesting indeed. Unfortunately, in the past, I've had a very short attention span (think gnat) and a very hot temper when frustrated. Not very god traits for a gunsmith. So: Upon completion of all the suggestions provided, I would already have ordered a new trigger guard and spring screw to replace the mangled one in the scrap can. <}:-)

Coffinmaker

Blair · May 03, 2013, 01:33:13 PM

Coffinmaker,

I don't like mechanical devices to get the best of me!
I very much agree with you.
The least expensive item to replace, and refit is the Screw.
I would go after this with a vengeance! And one can not be too timid when approaching its removal.
Blair

Coffinmaker · May 03, 2013, 10:51:28 PM

Well ... As recalcitrant as this sucker has been so far, I haven't seen anybody mention what would have been my last gambit. Vice Grips. Mother big Vice Grips and to heck with the screw head. Clamp the vice grip jaws down as tight as you can get 'em, put a piece of pipe over the handle (Arcamedes and his lever stuff) and either bust the screw loose or year the head right off it. Then, depending on the results, pitch that sucker in the scrap can <}:-)

Coffinmaker

Pettifogger · May 04, 2013, 11:04:37 AM

Quote from: Coffinmaker on May 03, 2013, 10:51:28 PM
Well ... As recalcitrant as this sucker has been so far, I haven't seen anybody mention what would have been my last gambit. Vice Grips. Mother big Vice Grips and to heck with the screw head. Clamp the vice grip jaws down as tight as you can get 'em, put a piece of pipe over the handle (Arcamedes and his lever stuff) and either bust the screw loose or year the head right off it. Then, depending on the results, pitch that sucker in the scrap can <}:-)

Coffinmaker

+1. I would have to get it out or couldn't sleep. Use a cresent wrench on the sides of the spring on either side of the screw. Then grab the top of the spring and pull one way while pushing the cresent wrech the other way. Like a big T handle. I would also throw a little heat on it just in case someone had loctited the screw.

Whiskey Banjo · May 04, 2013, 11:23:58 AM

So u break the head off, then what? Try and grab whats sticking out with needle nose vice grips? If the screw is that stuck i can guarentee u that wont work. U have different materials. Which have now gaulded and welded themselves together in a sense. Loctite will not hold a screw to the point of not being able to get it out if the threads are still in good shape. Ur gonna pull the threads right out with the screw. Then what? Its brass, so u can either drill it out and retap and put a BIGGER screw, or u can try and figure out how to helicoil it. Either way, ur opening a huge can of worms that has a bad outcome either way u look at it.

And for the record, loctite should never be used with a steel screw into brass. Or with stainless or aluminum. The only thing that should have been used to save the threads from gaulding is copper anti-sieze.

I deal with gaulded bolts and screws on a weekly basis. I build pre-40s custom cars and motorcycles.. u dont wanna break that screw unless u have proper machining equipment to fix the entire can of worms ur gonna open. Good luck with it..

Like i said. If u dont have to pull the screw, dont. Itll save u a massive headache.

-whiskey

Pettifogger · May 04, 2013, 12:58:17 PM

Quote from: Whiskey Banjo on May 04, 2013, 11:23:58 AM
So u break the head off, then what? Try and grab whats sticking out with needle nose vice grips? If the screw is that stuck i can guarentee u that wont work. U have different materials. Which have now gaulded and welded themselves together in a sense. Loctite will not hold a screw to the point of not being able to get it out if the threads are still in good shape. Ur gonna pull the threads right out with the screw. Then what? Its brass, so u can either drill it out and retap and put a BIGGER screw, or u can try and figure out how to helicoil it. Either way, ur opening a huge can of worms that has a bad outcome either way u look at it.

And for the record, loctite should never be used with a steel screw into brass. Or with stainless or aluminum. The only thing that should have been used to save the threads from gaulding is copper anti-sieze.

I deal with gaulded bolts and screws on a weekly basis. I build pre-40s custom cars and motorcycles.. u dont wanna break that screw unless u have proper machining equipment to fix the entire can of worms ur gonna open. Good luck with it..

Like i said. If u dont have to pull the screw, dont. Itll save u a massive headache.

-whiskey

Depends on what type of Loctite you are using. You must be really old.

Haven't heard the term gaulded in years.

Whiskey Banjo · May 04, 2013, 01:21:16 PM

Haha no im not to old.. just around really old timers all day every day.. they tend to rub off.. but gaulded bolts is something i see a lot in my line of work..

But what i meant about the loctite, is that with all that he has done already, the loctite would have broke loose by now.. even the new red loctite wont hold a screw/bolt THAT hard. Loctite is designed so a fastener wont vibrate loose, it is not designed to hold a fastener in for good. But i do have gorilla hands so ive never had an issue breaking loctite

dusty texian · May 04, 2013, 04:33:22 PM

Put (PB Blast) on it 30 minute,give it a tap on the screw head then just use your screwdriver to remove the screw.That stuff is that good, dont take my word for it, try it and then youll say the same.If that dont get it If that dont work for ya ,grind off the screw head remove the spring ,mill the screw stub flat ,center punch, drill& tap. Total time for that about 10 minutes.....Dusty.

Whiskey Banjo · May 04, 2013, 05:05:38 PM

Its a stainless screw in brass. Dont think u would wanna try and drill and tap through that. Unless ur drilling out the stainless and upsizing the screw or brazing the hole closed and redrilling.

dusty texian · May 04, 2013, 05:19:55 PM

Didnt know it was a SS screw,no matter SS is soft in most grades , not until you get into 309 or 310, or other SS or SS&Aloy combos,like Hasteloy ,Haines or the AR fAMILY. that is a lot harder . Still no problem ,use a cobalt drill and it will cut like butter. Still a ten minute job..........Dusty.