Re-Inventing the Wheel ....... NOT

[Coffinmaker]

I'm working on a hair brained scheme.  This scheme will involve Brass 12Ga shotgun ammunition for my Hammer doubles.
I know absolutely NOTHING about loading Brass Shot shells.
Found Magtec brass cases, can get shot.
Where do I find the rest of the stuff I need to make brass ammo???  Well .... 12 Ga brass ammo??

HELP??  Pretty Please!!

Coffinmaker

[hellgate]

You will need 11ga wads from circlefly.com

If you load the hulls heavily they will expand more and eventually be harder to extract so lighter loadings will work your cases less. i.e. you might get several loadings before needing to resize the cases. Sizing work hardens the brass so the less you size them the better but they also need to fall out of the chambers.

I would use elmers to seal the over shot wads. Others use water glass and others use a hot glue gun. I'm sure there are a half dozen other sealants.

Any combination of wads that gets you a decent gas seal an pattern will do. You MUST pattern your loads. It's easy: get a cardboard box, roll of freezer paper, a stapler, and a sharpie pen to mark an aiming spot. Gate back 10 or 15 yards and blast away. If your gun has chokes it'll probably pattern fine but the proof is on the paper.

[Slowhand Bob]

Not sure if this is even a part of the equation or not BUT I have seen 12ga shell holders and full length resizer dies listed on Ebay occasionally.  I believe these are both RCBS products, the  die has a deprimer pin just like standard cartridge versions but I do not know which primer size the shell holders are bored for.  Looks like they are made to use for loading brass shells on a standard metallics press?

[August]

http://www.buffaloarms.com/shotgun_wads_pr-4117.aspx

[FriscoCounty]

Circlefly is a good source for wads and information:
http://www.circlefly.com/html/wad_sizing_chart.html
http://www.circlefly.com/html/bp_cartridges.html

Another good site is BPI:
http://www.ballisticproducts.com/

RCBS makes a cowboy reloading die set for brass shells.   You need a press capable of handling 1-1/4" dies.  I have one, but mainly use it to deprime the spend cases.  After de-priming, I clean the shells in a tumbler.  Prime with an RCBS hand primer and the die set shell holder. Then load square loads (equal volumes of powder and shot) by hand with a measure and a length of 3/4" dowel as my press - FFg powder, nitro card, lubed wad, overshot card, shot, and, finally, an overshot card.  I glue the last overshot card in place with water glass around the edge of the card.  

One nice feature of brass shells is you don't need to fill the case.  The wad is a cushion and lube carrier, not a spacer.  My shells are never more than 2/3 full.

[Coffinmaker]

I'll bite.  "Water Glass".  Glue ok, but whatzit  and .... Where do I get it ?

You guys have been tremendous help.  Thanks a bunch 

Coffinmaker

[john boy]

Sodium silicate is the common name for a compound sodium metasilicate, Na2SiO3, also known as waterglass or liquid glass.

Coffinmaker - don't twist your long johns trying to find some.  The over shot card on the shot shell won't know the difference between waterglass or the glue from a glue gun.  Neither will the bores.

[Lefty Dude]

My 12 ga. All brass shell load uses a Lee 3.1cc dip of Goex fff, this is about 50 or so grains. & 1 once of shot. This works well for all CAS/SASS SG targets.
I use 3F because it is a little bit hotter than 2F and I can use less powder with cleaner and better results. Also I only stock one powder for all, Revolver, 44WCF Rifle & SG.

Brass shell reloading is not difficult, just different. I have taught several the Brass Shotgun shell reloading Dark Art.

[litl rooster]

I'll bite.  "Water Glass".  Glue ok, but whatzit  and .... Where do I get it ?

You guys have been tremendous help.  Thanks a bunch 

Coffinmaker

Try Lehman hardware on line

[Noz]

I'll bite.  "Water Glass".  Glue ok, but whatzit  and .... Where do I get it ?

You guys have been tremendous help.  Thanks a bunch 

Coffinmaker

Strangely enough, at a pharamacy.

[rickk]

Waterglass...



Make sure you get this one (code 75S). They have other products for the same purpose that aren't quite the same.

If it is a little thick for you... just add a bit of water to thin it out..

I have found it at both Home Depot and several ACE hardware stores. You can find it online as well. The correct price for it is about $5 bucks a bottle.

[FriscoCounty]

Water glass, Liquid glass, Sodium Silicate, silica of soda.

Try the local pharmacy, pottery/craft supply, Grainger's, amazon.com.

Water glass is 'traditional' in that it is what was used back in the 1870's before paper shells were introduced.  Hot glue is used by many. I've seen Duco mentioned.  A good craft glue, like Elmer's white, Crafter's Pick, E-6000, or Bead-Fix, can be used. 

Basically, you just need something to glue the overshot card in place so it won't come loose.  Otherwise, you will wind up with shot all over the place.  It should have good adhesion to the brass wall and either adheres to the overshot card or mechanically keeps it in place.  3 or 4 drops/blobs of adhesive around the edge 'should' do it; but, you will need to determine what works best for you.

[Coffinmaker]

When you start out on a hair brained scheme, Always, Always put the cart in front of the horse. 
Have had a ball chasing down all the stuff to make 12 gage brass shotgun ammo.  Got all my stuff together and .......
I don't have an ounce of shot (I don't reload shotgun for CAS).
I understand it's helpful to have some shot.
DuH.

Coffinmaker

[Lefty Dude]

Once my Brass case's are sized initially. For resizing I use a MEC 12 ga Super-Sizer to keep the size correct. I collet size both "Fore & Aft". Butt or case head first, then reverse the case in the collect for the mouth.
By using the collect sizer I work the brass very little. The case butt is where expansion is greatest by chamber pressure.

Works for me.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Here is the wheel that we didn't need to re-invent;

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,9733.0.html

[Coffinmaker]

Sir Charles ....

Thank you.  Actually, thanks to everyone who has pitched in. 

Gotta get some shot ..........


Coffinmaker

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Once my Brass case's are sized initially. For resizing I use a MEC 12 ga Super-Sizer to keep the size correct. I collet size both "Fore & Aft". Butt or case head first, then reverse the case in the collect for the mouth.
By using the collect sizer I work the brass very little. The case butt is where expansion is greatest by chamber pressure.

Works for me.

What do you do, if anything, about the 3/4" bit in the middle that is not sized?

[Lefty Dude]

What do you do, if anything, about the 3/4" bit in the middle that is not sized?

I resize the mouth to insure it will be round, not so much the proper size. When the Brasser's are ejected, sometimes they may come to be elipitical by some degree as they hit the ground, etc.
The middle of the case does not expand as much as the base. The middle is where the cushion wad is installed. The base will expand each time the case is fired.This is where a tight fit nitro card is a must, for proper holding pressure of the propellant.

I also load Smokless in all brass shells. I use two nitro cards over the smokless powder for a very tight hold.

A straight wall resizing die will not resize the base as well as a collet die.
All I shoot is Brass shells and I never have squibs or duds.

[Coffinmaker]

Well ..... The proof gonna be inna puddin so ro speak.  Got all my components together, some appliances and ..... some shot!!!  I put my first batch of brass roundabout together tonight and will find out I'd their any good at tomorrow's match.  Ye Haw.

I want to thank all you guys for your much appreciated wisdom.  I'll be bac to let ou know how it goes/went.

Coffinmaker.

And tanks to my Sweete for the use of her Hot Glue gun (she's a floral designer).

[Mean Bob Mean]

If wife or anyone you know has left over fingernail polish, that will work fine to seal the nitro card over the top.

Ballistic has a reloading manual for 15.00.  With a board bored out to punch the primers out with a nail punch (if you can find one long enough), a dowel to compress the powder, etc., you can load them by hand while watching the boob tube.  You don't have to fly through them, you can just poke along and load them up. 

Some useful links:
Loading BP shells of all kind:  http://www.tbullock.com/bpsg.html
Pictorial:  http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=469052
"Manual":  http://www.wowsinc.org/loadingfun.pdf
Abilene's writeup:  http://www.davidscottharper.com/shoot/BrassShotshell.pdf

Cheers

Mean Bob