Spencer rifle Franco Prussian War 1870

[Herbert]

Some 1860 carbines repaired-upgraded at Sringfield were not relined with the 3 groove liner acording to Roy Marcots Spencer book,I would think this would also apply to the 1860 rifle repair-upgrade .A large percentage of goverment store Spencers and all most all new unsold Spencers  were sent to France(most never saw action)they were taken by the Prushions as war repreasion after the French surender straight from stores back to Prusher were the stayed in stores untill the mid 1890s when they were sold on the surplas market world wide.Even today is is more common to find 1867, NM and Sprinfield Spencers in Europe than any were else ,this even after a great many would have been confiscated and destroyed in and after 2 world wars

[Fred]

Hi everybody and thank you very much , it's very interresting to read your comments about my Spencer rifle . I can see that it is not easy to identify with precision my rifle , The model marking is the one of a 1860 model ( not NM - New Model , not model 1865 , not model 1867 ) and the rifle is updated with Stabbler cutt-off ( post civl war ) but the bore is a 6 grooves caliber 56-56 ... (  Flayderman's guide 9 th edition page 634 indicate caliber 50 rimfire ) ... something sound wrong somewhere but i know the rifle is in original condition and i'm pretty sure this rifle was sent to france for the Franco Prussian war . So to my mind , when the French government of National Defense make a deal with the springfield Armory in the urgency of the war going wrong for France , Springfield Armory send to France all the production of Spencer rifles with stabbler cutt off and also those with a transformation not complet ( bore ) ...
We have got in france a very interresting book called " firearms of the national defense and their bayonnets " with all the records of delivery , we know the name of the steamboats who crossed the Atlantic , the date of unload on ports and the number and name of rifles and carbines ( Spencer , rolling block , Sharp , Peabody , winchester 66 and many others ) , about the Spencer rifle ( army and navy ) and the carbines , we have receive 37071 Spencer carbines with 5367 Spencer rifles , and it was a melting of 56-56 and 56-50 caliber . The American weapons were not given to Prussian army , some of them were sold in France for the civilain market on year 1900 , the Spencer were solt 18 Francs . The others are missing , the " legend " tell they were immersed .

[Two Flints]

Fred,

Do you have the exact title of that "interesting book" -firearms of the national defense and their bayonnets.  Is there an English version of this book?

Two Flints

[Fred]

Hello Two Flints , I don't think there is an English translation of the book , the title is ( in French of cause ) : Les armes à feu de la defense nationale et leurs baionnettes 1870-1871 , Witten by Jack Puard & Christian Mery , Edition Crepin Leblond . ( book dated 2008 )
You can find a picture of the cover on this website : http://www.librairie-spe.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=4548

There is 8 pages for the Spencer in this book with pictures of French " Francs tireurs " armed with the Spencer , pictures are usually " cabinet photo " , taken in Paris besieged or in provincial cities .
The book is full of pictures of French soldiers with Starr revolver , Remigton , colt nay 1851 or 1860 also with French chassepot , or British snider , revolver Lefaucheux , ect ect ... everything we used in this war and we can find the records of the weapons delivery and where they were used .

The Spencer rifles and Carabines were used by many soldiers and mostly by " Francs tireurs " , 600 legions of Francs tireurs were created in this war , from France and many countries . There was two or three legions of American soldiers .

[Fred]

 You can find a great picture of a " Francs Tireurs " corps from the department of " Deux sévres " ( in west France ) all armed with Spencer rifles ( army model )  with French bayonnet model 1847 : http://www.military-photos.com/1871page6.htm

[Two Flints]

Fred,

Thank you for the post and link to the French photos.  Very interesting.

Two Flints

[Blair]

A lot of ACW surplus was sent to France post Civil War.
What is the issue here?
My best,
Blair

[Fred]

will try to send better pictures of my spencer soon .

Thanks everybody , Fred .

[Fred]

here is the pictures

[Fred]

more pictures

[Fred]

last pictures , enjoy !

Fred .

[Fred]

I forget this one ...

[Two Flints]

Thank you Fred.

Next time photos look their best if taken with daylight . . . lots of shadows, but nice and sharp.  Thanks for posting the certificate . . . can you traslate the French into English.

Best to you Fred,

Two Flints (another Fred)

[Fred]

hello , you are right , daylight is better to take pictures but it's about 1 PM in France and moon light is cover by rainny clouds !
I will make a translation of the " Franc tireur of Paris certificate " soon , i woud like to show an interresting telegram from 1871 , here is the Translation :
Transatlantic telegram from New York city , received at Brest city ( French Atlantic coast city ) From US consulat to French minister of war .
" General consul to minister of war , Bordeaux . The familly of American colonel Burr Porter , who came to France to join the war last November , have no knews of him since a telegramme on date of December 22 from Lyon and sent by Frappoli , ask informations about this officer who was recommanded by general Dix to sir Washbourne "
Burr Porter died in France in a cavalery charge against Prussian on December 09 1870 , he was wounded to death by a shrapnel nearby Orleans city , he was fighting with a compagny of French mobile national guard from the Lot ( le Lot is a French department  ) , is death was published in the New York times on March 16 1871 .
I find this very interresting . Thanks Fred .

[Fred]

here is the documents from my collection , somes of you will certainy find this " off topic " but i'm happy to share this you you .
Fred .

[Two Flints]

Fred,  

Do you have photos of Colonel Burr Porter?  See my next post


Or any other photos of French soldiers with Spencers that you can share with us.  

Thank you so much for the Franco-Prussian information.

Two Flints

[Two Flints]

Fred,

Have you seen this?  Found my photo of Colonel Porter

The Commanding Officers of Occupied West Point

Col. Burr Porter


Col. Porter was commander of the Second Brigade at West Point. A brief bio from the History of the
Third Massachusetts Cavalry . . .

Colonel Burr Porter who succeeded Colonel Sargent in command of the Third Cavalry was a gentleman of liberal culture and a soldier of varied experience. He served in three wars and obtained military distinction on two continents. Burr Porter was born in New Hartford Conn Oct 26 1831. After graduating at Rutger's College New Brunswick NJ with high honors and having an ardent love of freedom and liberty he went to Europe and offered his sword to the Turkish Government at the beginning of the Crimean War. He served on the staff of Omar Pasha, was in the siege before Sevastopol and earned distinction and fame being presented with a sword by the Foreign Legion composed of the English and French officers who also served in that war. He came back to New York and was practising law when the Civil War broke out He was among the first to offer his services and at the outset of the struggle served on the staff of General John C Fremont Governor Andrew sent for him and offered him a commission in some Massachusetts regiment Colonel Porter chose the Fortieth and for some time was its Commander Near the close of the war he was made Colonel of the Third Massachusetts Cavalry. He was married in 1868 and an only child Katherine was born in 1869. When the Franco Prussian War broke out his love for the French impelled him to aid France in her hour of need and he went over to organize cavalry. The Army of the Loire being in great distress he offered his sword to the French. He took a staff position with General Clancy. He was killed in action December 10th 1870 and was buried with military honors. His body was later brought to America and his last resting place is in Forest Hills Cemetery Mass.

[Fred]

Hi Two flints , Thanks for the informations about Burr Porter , it's very interresting . I send 3 more pictures of French " Francs Tireurs " of the 1870-1871 war armed with Spencer rifles . Thoses pictures comes from the book " les armes à feu de la defense nationale et leurs baionnettes " and i'm not sure they are " free" so i writted the name of the collector owner in order to avoid copyright problems . The pictures show " Francs Tireurs Béarnais " it mean coming from " béarn " wich is a French départment . As I said in an other post , they was about 600 Francs Tireurs corps with 600 diffrent uniforms , the uniforms of thoses pictures are specific to this corps and not representative of the uniforms used in Franco-Prussian war , it's non-regular uniforms .

[Fred]

picture here

[Fred]

picture here , sorry ...