western3gun.com

[Foothills Drifter]

Howdy......
Take a look at this..............

http://www.western3gun.com

Its kinda new, I ain't never shot it (yet) but i'm gonna try!

Good shootin......
Vern...

[Doc Shapiro]

Sounds like they have all the problems worked out with SASS.  So, I'm gonna go and shoot the match. 

I think this is going to be very good for both groups.  There will be increased media attention and a real good outlet for the competitor.  The extra media attention will really be a boost.  A win for everyone!

In addition, I understand that there will be door prizes for every shooter that will make it well worth the entry fee!

Doc

[Wymore Wrangler]

Personally I think it's going to take some of the fun away, I also think it's going to start a race to see how much a gun can be altered to race ready which we don't need in this sport.   Now if everyone had to shoot stock guns out of the box, that would be a different story....

[Doc Shapiro]

Wymore, we're already heavily modifying guns, internally.  Western 3 Gun will not allow external modifications.   Only internal mods.  Similar to SASS rules.

Doc

[California Lawdawg]

Well it looked like it would be a lot of fun until the word "running" showed up. That leaves me out


Lawdawg

[Big Hext Finnigan]

Howdy all,

I think it's great that the serios competitors have a place to go and play.  I hope that this will reduce the competitive charge that has been evident in recent SASS matches.  The pace could slow a bit and we could have more varied stages at the big SASS matches.

Still, anything that gets folks out there shooting, I want to see it go foreward.
Adios,

[Doc Shapiro]

Hext, I don't know that that'll happen.  The matches at your local clubs are mostly a function of the match director or the person that's writing the stages.  It can be a lot of fun writing stages, and also quite challenging to put together a good match.

I think it's going to be a good addition to the shooting sports and I think everyone will benefit to some degree, be it increased attention by vendors or something else.

Doc

[Big Hext Finnigan]

Doc, who knows..
But the match director/RO/Stage writer is under pressure from all the different voices.  If the competitive voices are somewhat mollified by the presence of W3G, then it will reduce the demands and complaints for balanced stages, prop usage and goofiness in general.

Adios,

[Doc Shapiro]

I like props and goofyness and often write them into stages, and I'm one of the competitive types!  And, from what I've been told, there will be props and prop handling at W3G matches as well.

Might even increase the pressure on the stage writers to add those back in!

When stage writers have written stages month after month for several years, the imagination starts to flag.  I suspect this is more likely the culprit that you're noticing.

Doc

[St. George]

I'll pass.
Regrettably, I have limited faith in the abilities of civilian shooters and those shooters whose abilities I'm unsure of, so it's not my cup of tea.
I keep thinking two words - Accidental Discharge"...

Mine is a military background - pure Combat Arms - also that of a military competitive shooter - National Matches and Combat Arms Matches - and a weapons instructor/team coach.
As such, my experience is heavily influenced on training and practice and more of the same, coupled with unlimited ammunition for both.
As for the "average" shooter - I just don't see them as having the time or the ammunition to do what it takes to become that reliable, though I'm sure many are.
But when there's fire and movement and possible indecision at a stage because of choices - coupled with quicker gun handling, I keep seeing those two words.

Good luck, though, and remember what TR said - "The only shots that count are the ones that hit..."

Scouts Out!

[cks]

I have to disagree with St. George!  My background is also the National Matches, IPSC & now CAS.  I have never seen anybody more dedicated than "civilian shooters"!  It sure isn't the service team members winning the overall National Championship year after year with all of their unlimited ammo, free premium weapons, free professional coaches and paid pracitce time?  The USAMU even has/had (?) an IPSC team for a while & while they performed very well, they never WON the big ones!  Somebody who has to spend their own $$$, find time to practice, shoot matches, work for a living & take care of a family has to be way more focused on what they want to accomplish in order to be succesful.  As the match results from just about any discipline will show!  The thing about CAS is that there is room for the competitive types (self), costume types, fun types & all the combinations there of.  Some of these factions do seem to have more time available to attempt convincing the other groups that their group/style is of course the ONE TRUE WAY!  Even they calm down now and then & get along untill their next tirade about .75 cal smoothbores fired while holding them with only 2 fingers or some other nonsense just has to be expoused to the unfaithful.

[Foothills Drifter]

I'll pass.
Regrettably, I have limited faith in the abilities of civilian shooters and those shooters whose abilities I'm unsure of, so it's not my cup of tea.
I keep thinking two words - Accidental Discharge"...

Howdy......
St. George, is an Accidental Discharge not possible with a military combat shooter? Are they infalible? Are they gods?? I think NOT! From what I gather form your post, you must not have a good time at SASS shoots or have any trust in civilian shooters. Is that true.

Good shootin......
Vern...

[Deadeye]

Howdy,

I'm not sure that W3G has any relavance outside of the local area where the matches are held but they do have a couple of ideas I like.

Those being the minimum velocity requirement and at the 38 cal minimum.

I don't know why, but the sound of a 32-20 levergun is just annoying and detracts from the western "flavour" of the matches for me.    Sounds more like a carnival shooting gallery.  When I hear one I expect to look around and see clowns. .

38 Sp is pushing the limit in my mind at least.    I can see it for youthful or small bodied pistol shooters but when I see a grown man shooting a 38 revolver I can't help thinking "here is someone trying to find advantage by working the rules".   Which as I understand it is not in the "spirit of the game".

The minimum velocity requirement also, I think, would make for a more enjoyable match.    Some pistol shooters seem to be using ammo that barely pushes the bullet out of the barrel.   I mean when there is an noticable delay between the bang and the clink at 15 ft we are down to slingshot velocity  .   I think this practice is dangerous from a reloading perspective and way too "gamey" for my taste.   

The painting of the targets between shooters is an interesting idea.  As an old HP Silhouette shooter this seems only reasonable.  However it would be an extra element of logistics to manage, would require someone to go "downrange" during the match, and might slow down the stages.    Also might eliminate some disputes and ill feelings regarding hits/misses.

Just my two cents worth.

Texas Deadeye Jack

[Paper Chaser]

Well, this thread could get a little sticky so I'll just say that next time I talk with Wild Bill I'll remind him of his 'under-caliber' Navy revolvers.  I'm transitioning to .38 due to the arthritis and tendonitis in my hands, hate it because I was always a .45 shooter.  Can and do still shoot the .45 (Colt and ACP) but just cannot keep the tingle and numbness from coming on after 30 or 40 rounds.  Oh, I guess I'll have to sell off my Winchester 32-20 since it doesn't make a very loud 'clang'; oh well it needs a new sight anyway.
Wow, do I have fun with this or what?  and to relieve stress, take a view of my recent visitor.  Cheers, smiles, and be SAFE

[St. George]

I said I had "limited faith" in civilian shooters.
Still do - always will.
Too many that I've seen learned their shooting skills by watching movies, and subscribing to a mind-set that says to them, "I'm a guy.  Of course I know all I need to know about shooting..."

If you rail on about free ammo, paid range time, et al, well, you could've stepped up, and raised your right hand - I would've sworn you in and you could see if life in Service to your Country was for you and see if you could make the cut.
But if you didn't, well, then there's not too much validity to your complaint.

Some civilians do bring an amazing amount of dedication to the shooting sports - you see it every year at Camp Perry - and they're to be respected.
I have no problem with that, and never will.

As to AD's - for Basic Rifle and Pistol Marksmanship-level  shooters, I'm sure that they happen - we do, after all, bring in kids who've never fired anything before.
On the shooting teams - or in my line of work - I can say that I've never seen or heard of any.
But we shoot for a lot bigger prize, and we view marksmanship as a professional skill.

As to having fun at a SASS match - I thought that that was what they were supposed to be about.
They're reaching a point to where they're not going to be as the "competitiors" start to out-number the average shooters.

The concept of "Western3Gun" is a great idea for those guys who are more competition-driven.

All I said was that it wasn't my cup of tea - and that I'd pass...

Good Luck to you all.

Scouts Out!

[Will Ketchum]

I'm with St. George as far as it not being my cup of tea but then I'm nearly 60 and anything that involves running, except perhaps to the head isn't for me.

Then again anything that promotes shooting is good. Just as Hext said.

Who knows with the minimum caliber restriction that might lead to something in CAS.  I would be all for a segregation between large caliber (40 & over) and small caliber (everything else). That might stop the arguing about weeny calibers .

Will Ketchum

[Irish Red O'Toole]

I like everything that I see concerning the Western 3Gun match.  The minimum velocity rule, .38's or bigger (there's a joke in there somewhere), painting targets, the scoring system.  All sounds like a match for those wanting to stretch to the next level. 

The thing that bothers me is a rumor about SASS getting it's collective nose out of joint over this event.  The rumors were spreading wildly about possible bannings and such.  After seeing the list of dedicated shooters, I have to question whether that was ever the case.  Wouldn't make sense for an organization to ban so many of it's top shooters for shooting in another event.  So, can someone more knowledgeable explain what the bone(s) of contention are and what needs to be done to solve them?  If they have already been overcome, what was changed?

If the goal is to get more people out and interested in shooting, this one should fit the bill.

[Irish Red O'Toole]

5 days and no repsonses to why SASS got it's undies in a bunch....

[D. R. Greysun]

Well Red it's as simple as the nose on yer face. MONEY! If'n someone pays it out we may have to also. As fer SASS banin' anyone, BS! Where did ye get that idea? SASS ain't no sanctionin body. Ya play by there rule at there shoots that's all.
D R

[Doc Shapiro]

SASS see's their matches as amateur events.  In their (SASS) view, if you are shooting another cowboy style event for money or big time prizes (that can be easily sold), then you are a professional - regardless of the IRS views to the contrary.  What the reprisal by SASS will be is unknown.

Unfortunatly, it's looking like the W3G match is on a deadline weekend for my wife.  That means I won't be able to make it .

But the week after is Steel Challenge.  I think I can make that, and get my butt whipped  .

Doc