Why USFA Revolvers Command High Prices

[Major 2]

you are still overlooking 

Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2013.

Replica
rep·li·ca   [rep-li-kuh] 

noun 
a copy or reproduction of a work of art produced by the maker of the original or under his or her supervision.
any close or exact copy or reproduction.

I'm a Colt collector,  ( an minor one )
I have 1 made is 1862 and delivered to the 5th Iowa Cavalry ( so lettered )  44 Cal.
1 made in 1872 delivered to Schuler Hartley & Graham ( so lettered )  also 44 cal. in center fire
1 made in 1882  delivered to J. S. Brown Hardware   ( lettered )  in 45 Colt.

Part of the interest in ownership beyond the fact they are Real Colts is the coincident they are one decade apart in manufacture.
I also have several more made in the 1970 - 78  made by Colt, they are reproductions.

[Pettifogger]

This is really getting good.  Now we are arguing like a bunch of numb nuts over dictionary definitions of words and how (or if) they apply to firearms.

[petrinal]

you are still overlooking  

Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2013.

Replica
rep·li·ca   [rep-li-kuh]  

noun  
a copy or reproduction of a work of art produced by the maker of the original or under his or her supervision.
any close or exact copy or reproduction.

I'm a Colt collector,  ( an minor one )
I have 1 made is 1862 and delivered to the 5th Iowa Cavalry ( so lettered )  44 Cal.
1 made in 1872 delivered to Schuler Hartley & Graham ( so lettered )  also 44 cal. in center fire
1 made in 1882  delivered to J. S. Brown Hardware   ( lettered )  in 45 Colt.

Part of the interest in ownership beyond the fact they are Real Colts is the coincident they are one decade apart in manufacture.
I also have several more made in the 1970 - 78  made by Colt, they are reproductions.

that applies to work of arts, not to industrial products.

works of art are supposed to be unique, for instance, GIOCONDA, so...if someone else makes a perfect copy, it is a reproduction, as it does not come from the original artist, Leonardo Da Vinci. If the artist making the copy, is LEONARDO, then it is not a copy or a reproduction, but just "another version", or "another GIOCONDA", but allways regarded as "an original Leonardo´s".

another example if the VIRGIN IN THE CAVES, painting, which has two versions, one then exposed in London´s National Gallery...they are both original paintings from LEONARDO, and the second and improved version, is not regarded as "a copy or reproduction", but as the "second version of the VIRGIN IN THE CAVES".

so I think that you are mixing concepts here.

a COLT MODEL P made today is an original COLT SINGLE ACTION.....as the maker is the original  manufacturer and is exactly the same revolver, with very very minor variants and still made by the same company. It is their model, not someone´s else,  as they are not copying another company´s design, it was Colt who invented that model, so they cant copy themselves...they just still make today  the model  themselvfes invented in 1872.

sorry but you are the only person in the entire serious COLT  collecting world, who defines a COLT model P (peacemaker) like a modern reproduction or replica. All others are replicas, but  not the COLT.

the modern COLT blackpowder revolvers you mentioned, who have no collector interest, and quite overlooked by COLT COLLECTORS, were not made by COLT,  as COLT did no longer have the machinery and tools to make them, that´s the reason why they are not considered as original COLTS by the collectors community, and thats why they are not much valued.

they were made by LOU IMPERATO with a mix of american frames, not made by COLT, and italian barrels, cilinders and internal parts (UBERTI).

from the competition point of view, as they are made in the XX century, the MLAIC regards them as modern reproductions. From the collector point of view, their price has deteriorated because, as I said, they were not made by Colt, thought they sold them.

they were a italian product finished by COLT, something very true in the  Blackpowder line, sold by COLT BLACKPOWDER in the end of 90´s/beginning of 2000´s.

another example is the newly made MAUSER LUGERS, in the 1970´s,  who are regarded as "original LUGERS" and not "a modern reproduction", for two facts:

the maker is one of the original manufacturers of P08´s, and they were made in Germany by that company, who had to buy machinery from the SWISS to make the gun again. They have gained in value in the last years exactly for taht same reason:

they were not made by a third party under contract.

another example are the LUGER Kriegoffs made today by the Kriegoff company in GERMANY. It is regarded as an authentic LUGER KRIEGGOFF exactly for the same reasons:

they are made by the same company today in GERMANY, so they are not a replica like the ones sold by INTERARMS years ago, who have no collector value at all, while the KRIEGOFFs are a good investment, and very valued by collectors today.

so you are mixing facts and guns that have nothing to do. All colt COLLECTORS  in the entire planet regard de Colt model P   made today by COLT, as "the original", mainly because it is made still by COLT in the good old USA.

a USFA will never reach that status, they are not COLTs.

[Major 2]

Glittering generalities .....

your still overlooking the definitions....

Original Art is not reproduction... a print of the same would be....You don't think a Colt's SAA is a work of Art ?

Colt ceased production in 1941 ( War years )  they were spurred to resume by Bill Ruger and his version,  and the resurgence of SAA interest, to re-produce in 1956 , stopped again in 73-4  and re-introduce in 1976.

   

Webster's Definition

Reproduction    
re·pro·duc·tion
  [ree-pruh-duhk-shuhn]   

noun 
the act or process of reproducing,  the state of being reproduced,  something made by reproducing an original; copy; duplicate:


English lesson over ....     

[petrinal]

sorry to disagree again.

an "original" is normally, when it comes to art, "one and only". Thats why it makes sense to make "a reproduction". But once again, we are talking about an industrial product, result of machinery and the industrial revolution.

a COLT SAA is not a work of art, unless you got it engraved. A Colt SAA is an Icon, a prodigy of design, a beauty, a really practical gun, and probably the most collected firearm in the world.

if a COLT model P is a reproduction, then the models made in 1956, some of them assembled with parts made in 1941 or 1940...are reproductions too?

a peacemaker made in 1910, with changes in the design  in the materials, for smokeless powders, is a reproduction?

one made in 1890, with changes in the retaining pin, is a reproduction?

[Marshal Deadwood]

You guys are never so happy as when you know you are full of chit and trying to justify it LOL...funny funny and FUNNY ! LOL

Big kids playing cowboy,,,and pretending it's REALLY serious suff....grow up for Christ sake. LOL

[Capt. John Fitzgerald]

Try to look at the bright side of things; at least we're getting a little action on the forum for a change (even if none of it is worth reading).

[Coffinmaker]

Never, Ever, confuse a true collector with Facts.  Or fiction for that matter. 

Coffinmaker

PS:  This is FUN!!

[Doc Sunrise]

WOW!  We have come full circle, or did we never leave the gate.  Colt is the only thing in this world worth being collected.  Every other manufacturer of every other product in this world is disqualified!  Now this entire forum can go to sleep, as the Colt Collector's Forum does with such consistent repeated frequency and great replicated reproduction because it is the ORIGINAL of all things great!   

[c.o.jones]

WHY DO YOU PEOPLE KEEP FEEDING THE TROLL. THIS CRAP WILL GO ON TILL THE END OF TIME IF YOU KEEP FEEDING.

[petrinal]

WOW!  We have come full circle, or did we never leave the gate.  Colt is the only thing in this world worth being collected.  Every other manufacturer of every other product in this world is disqualified!  Now this entire forum can go to sleep, as the Colt Collector's Forum does with such consistent repeated frequency and great replicated reproduction because it is the ORIGINAL of all things great!    

I never said that, thought it is a matter of fact that COLTS are probably the most collectable firearms today, along with some english duelling pistols, Winchester firearms, Mauser C96´s, and Lugers, of course.

we are just comparing USFA versus COLT from the investment point of view. Let´s have in mind something:

Colts are increasing all the time in price. A Colt SAA made in 1965, for instance, can be paid, if with original box, in mint  unused condition,  as much and with all probability,  more than a modern COLT P made yesterday morning and they are increasing in price, even used models. Collectors just go crazy for them..

I doubt that USFAs will reach that point, they are not the original thing, though very well made, of course.

[Coffinmaker]

Well ........ OK ......... I'll quit.  Sure was fun though

Coffinmaker

[Coffinmaker]

Besides.  I don't consider Petrinal a Troll.  Just opinionated 

Coffinmaker

[Coffinmaker]

An opinionated Collector.   

Coffinmaker

[RickB]

Besides.  I don't consider Petrinal a Troll.  Just opinionated 

Coffinmaker

Then you've never read his comments on other threads or you might think differently. 

[Pettifogger]

I don't want to go all the way through all the responses, but why does anyone believe USFA's are "commanding" high prices?  People are asking high prices, but at most of the gun shows and shops that I go to they aren't moving at anywhere near the asking price.  I just sold a like new in box .45 Rodeo for $495.00 and it took a long time to get that.  I also go to as many shoots as possible that have swap meets.  USFAs do sell, but at NOWHERE near some of the goofy prices on Gunbroker.  Heck, lately I've seen Colt Cowboys going for over $1,000.00 on Gunbroker.  Almost makes me want to drag the one I got from the custom shop that is all blue with ivorex grips out of the safe and list it.  I've never even taken it out of the plastic bag.  I had a gun shop before I finally fully retired.  If you put a used Colt and a used USFA out on the shelf guess which one sold first and which one stayed there for months?  If you put a used Colt, used USFA and a new Uberti out guess which one sold first.

[RickB]

Pettifoger is correct. Just because they are asking big prices for something doesn't mean people are paying the asking price. Things are only worth what someone is willing topay. 

[wileycoyote]

lack of gunshow interest isn't due to quality or collectiblity, the reason they don't sell well at gunshows is the most buyers have never even heard of USFA.

i had one on a table recently and only one guy in the whole show had even heard of the brand. his eyes lite up! he understood it's value and wanted it "bad" and would have happily paid what i was asking, even though i was asking a GB price, but just didn't have the available funds at that time.

apparently USFA single actions are for folks who get it.

[Graveyard Jack]

People are paying big prices because they're better guns than Colt EVER produced. No, I don't expect a Colt collector to admit that. However, if you can look at them objectively and aren't blinded by the rampant pony, you know it's true. They are also no longer made and that almost always causes prices to jump. So much for the Colt fan blather about USFA's being poor investments.

[petrinal]

in what were they better than  a third generation COLT?

Colt SAAs are still made. As I said, in batches.