What thickness of leather for Botas?

[santee]

Ready to tackle some boats de alas. Got a pattern, but don't know what leather thickness they are supposed to be. Kinda look thin to me. Anyone have a tip?

Santee

[ChuckBurrows]

When I made botas a lot, I used various leathers for various styles, wants, and time periods:

1) Based on originals I've examined the most common leather used was brain tanned buckskin - these were decorated in various style including: Indian and Mexican - some of the Mexican were "tooled" by using heated brass plates with the deco engraved on it and then pressed into the damp leather. The only downside to brain tan is the cost - an excellent alternative that looks like brain tan is the German Tan available from Crazy Crow, you can even get it smoked. The only downside to the German tan is it's a bit heavier than buckskin, being thicker and thus heavier like elk hide. Another lighter weight alternative are the real chamois cleaning cloths from auto parts houses.
When using any type of "soft" buckskin, elk hide, or similar no matter the tannage , I highly recommend to pre-stretch it.

2) 2-3 oz Bark tan cow hide can also be used albeit the finished botas will be firmer/stiffer

3) I have also used the sheepskins from Crazy Crow - they make up into a super nice pair, especially for those desiring a slick side on one side and they are very cost effective - pre-stretch them.

4) If historical accuracy is not a big concern at least prior to 1880, then any chrome tanned type hide will work: Elk (4-5 oz), Deer (2-3 oz), buffalo (3/4 oz), and cow hide (3-4 oz upholstery sides, buck tanned, and blacksmith side). Again soft hides like deer, elk, buffalo, etc should be pre-stretched.
FYI- while chrome tanning was discovered in the 1860's, this type leather did not become commercially available in the USA until 1880 and later.

any way I hope that helps.

[santee]

Thanks, Chuck. It helps immensely. I like getting a history lesson when you post! Mine will be post 1880, and the idea of deer or buffalo seems great.

[Major 2]

Back about 1982, while doing Living History, I was given the operatunity to handle & pull a pattern from a pair of Botas at Jefferson Barricks, Mo.
A very good friend was a curaror at the Museum, and the pair in their inventory were those of a Corporal Geo. W. Gibson
Co. B  1 Dragoons.
I was told, they were Mule Deer hide.
Simple, and unadorned and quite dark brown, they wrapped the leg, had 2 buttons & held snug with a tied thong.

Flash forward a few months, I worked a deal with a reenacting friend and I bought an Oak Tanned Missouri Mule Deer Hide in chocolate.
These became my botas, I used them for many years reenacting the Tex Mex era , and still use them today on ocasion with brogans, when it's very hot & humid instead of my boots.

30 years and they look great !

[santee]

Wow, Major 2, that's terrific. I'm hoping mine will give me the same kind of longevity.

[Major 2]

I had used Skidmores on them about a year or so ago 

[santee]

One more question. What size conchos make up the buttons on the side?

[Major 2]

On Corporal Gibson's there just two buttons per leg at the top to fasten above the calf in crux of the knee ( Leather thong to snug )
and the 2nd. about mid- calf way looser ,this kept the overlap flared but attached  (not sure I writing what I'm try'n' to say ? )

Anyway, they were 7/8"  or 15/16 " plain pewter and only two remained attached , a 3rd was loose but with the set.

For mine, I chose a flat Pewter Eagle w/ a D in the shield ( main reason I had a good supply of these )
or go with the cupped/domed  7/8 Pewter

http://www.thequartermastergeneral.com/?category=buttons_clasps
Domed Pewter 7/8" Button
Plain domed pewter button. Pewter button sizes are approximate.

[Mogorilla]

Hi Santee,
I used three conchos on mine, I think they were 2" brass ones from Tandy.  That, or when the NCOWS convention was in KC.  I can't remember.   My leather is a garment weight deer hide, fairly thin.  Real comfortable.
Here is a pick of one closed (this is the right leg)


and laid flat

[ChuckBurrows]

I've used 3/4" to 1.5" for buttons - most around 1.25" or so.....one pair of early botas (known as breed leggings by many in the late 1800's) that uses shoe buttons, like those used on women's shoes.
While there is plenty of documentation for unbuttoned botas, many just tied at the top, I find the buttons help keep them from spreadin apart and slipping down.

[santee]

Thanks, all. Chuck, good to know the buttons are useful and not just for decoration.
Mogorilla, 'ppreciate the photos. Those came out nice.
Major 2, one day I hope to see those originals.

[TexasToby]

This is one of a few that I made out of 3/4oz chap leather. I think 1 1/4" conchos.

[TexasToby]

Another thing that has not been mentioned is the pattern. You are going to have to learn to adjust your patterns and also just to make your patterns if you are going to be making these.

[santee]

Thanks, Texas Toby. Do you have any more photos of yours to post? I'm to the buttons/conchos stage and for some reason it's confusing me.

[TexasToby]

I am not understanding exactly what you are asking so , I will just start writing and maybe answer your queston. I have put another pic up from the back that shows more of what you want to know. The top concho is only decoration attached to the flap. Under the flap is a strap that goes around the leg and buckles under the flap out of site. The next 2 conchos are attached to the bat wing with a small "D" ring on the back side then a chap snap that will snap into  the "D" ring, has a strip of leather tied to the snap and the other end tied to the other flap of leather that wraps around the leg. It is real hard to see in the pic but that is the best I can do right now. The other pair that is shown above looks as thou the conchos are attached to one side and the other side has slits in it. This way you put the concho threw a slit like you do a button. Some have a piece of leather rolled up, then a slit put into the side of the roll and the other end is run threw the slit to make a button with a strip of leather that hangs out of the slit to tie to one side so that the roll that made the button is run threw the slit in the other side that comes around the leg. I hope you can make some since out of this. Happy Easter!! Texas Toby ps: this Page shows 2 ways to attach these to your leg and using the leather rolled buttons is another way.

[santee]

Thanks, TT. Where I was planning to put the concho buttons seemed too far back (behind the calf as opposed to on the side of the calf). Seeing your pic of the back, I realized that I was not centering the damn things correctly on my legs. I get it now, and the feeling of stupidity is waning. There are outside gettin' a tan. I will post the pics later.

[ChuckBurrows]

Here's the basic pattern I use with where I attach the fittings



as an alternative you can also lace or sew the flap so that it does not need to fold over - a laced upper edge adds a nice "texture" to the set. Also  one other measurement that needs to be considered is the diameter of the calf so that you have enough room there for adding the buttons properly

[santee]

Thanks, everyone, for your guidance. It all came together. Now, I might just add some more spots and more tan.

[TexasToby]

Those look real nice Santee. Now I have another question for some of you to shed some lite on it for me. I am not a snake person but, I want to know how would a pair of these made out of 3/4 oz chap or upholstery leather do,  how would they be as far as protection against snake bites? I try to avoid snakes as much as possible but, in west Texas and in knee high grass or weeds would this be a good protection? Any one that knows about this subject your input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Texas Toby

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I had copied the bota pattern that Chuck posted and tried it out with brown-bag paper.  I realized that the pattern, as drawn, requires the closure to be behind the knee.  I thought I'd try to adjust it to close on the outside of the leg, and fit more snugly.

I now have a trapezoid shape.  The buttons line up 1/4 of the circumference from the front and the buttonholes take up the remaining 3/4 of the circumference.

The top line of the leg seems to come out better with a flatter/straighter scallop.

I have a choice of smaller Ranger Star conchos from Tandy, or antique looking buttons from my neighbourhood fabric shop.

Comments are welcome.  (I'm saving my pixels until I get to the cutting-out stage.)