Got me an original battle rifle

[Silver Creek Slim]

I went to the local gun shop that specializes in CAS guns. The owner is who got me interested in CAS. There was this trapdoor in the rack that was calling my name. It followed me home.  According to the serial #, it was made in 1887. It has a Buffington rear sight, an 1886 cartouche, an 1873 breech block, a cleaning rod and a bayonet. It is in real good condition. The bore is bright. The rifling is good all the way to the muzzle, so the steel cleaning rod was not used much in it. Someone put a higher front sight insert on it to lower the zero, so the bayonet will not go on it. But I don't think I'll need it on. I took it apart and it wasn't very dirty or rusty. I cleaned and oiled it. I think it has been sitting in a safe for quite some time.

There is one thing I would appreciate any insight on. It has Co. A 1st stamped on the left side of the butt stock. Would this have been put on by the US Army or a state militia?

Slim

[pony express]

Congratulations on being followed home by a nice rifle-but where are the pictures? I don't know about the unit markings, but some kind of state unit would be my guess. I don't know if an 1873 breechblock would be origional, I'm sure Drydock will be along later and he knows a lot more than me. If you come to a GAF Muster, you'll have opportunity to use that bayonet. Maybe after you shoot it, see where it is zeroed, you can lower the front sight just a bit so the bayonet will fit, but still have an acceptable sight setting.

[Silver Creek Slim]

I'll take some pictures and post them.
What I have seen on the Internet is that is should have a "Model 1884" breechblock. I have a correction. The Co. A 1st stamping is on both sides of the butt stock.

Slim

[Trailrider]

A couple of possibilities... This could be a parts gun. Bannerman and a number of others assembled Trapdoor rifles and carbines from spare parts. It could have been a field replacement breechblock, though that is less likely than if the 1884 block had replaced a '73 block on an earlier model. Yes, it could be a militia or national guard rifle. IIRC, the Universirty of Minnesota sold a bunch of these that had been used for ROTC drill pieces just after WWII. They sold them for $5.00 apiece! Wish I had been old enough to have bought one.  You might want to check the headspace before firing. As long as the block won't close on a FIELD gage you'd be fine. I know that Clymer makes them, and I think Brownells probably has them. If yoiu get into antique .45-70 or the cartridges with the same case head, it would be a good thing to have. The GO and NO-GO are nice to have, but not necessary.

You might want to check the serial number against records in the Springfield Research Newsletters. There might be a record showing the outfit to which it was assigned.

[Drydock]

I'd have to see it, but the 73 breechblocks did occasionaly show up on 1884s as produced, but very rarely.  Likely yours was swapped out some time or another.  The unit marking on the stock is almost certainly a state unit marking, probably from the Spanish American War timeframe.  It sounds dandy!  Look forward to seeing it. 

I've never had a Trapdoor, even a mixed parts one, fail headspace, not that it could not happen.  Be a good idea to check, but I'd bet good money its just fine.  Sent you a PM.

[Pitspitr]

I'd have to see it, but the 73 breechblocks did occasionaly show up on 1884s as produced, but very rarely.  Likely yours was swapped out some time or another.  The unit marking on the stock is almost certainly a state unit marking, probably from the Spanish American War timeframe.  It sounds dandy!  Look forward to seeing it. 

I've never had a Trapdoor, even a mixed parts one, fail headspace, not that it could not happen.  Be a good idea to check, but I'd bet good money its just fine.  Sent you a PM.

+1 on all the above. I hope you'll try it out at a Muster soon!

[G.W. Strong]

I think 1886-1887 is the time of the changeover to the 1884 marked breech blocks. They used up what they had until they ran out and then started using the 84 marked ones. Don't discount it as possibly original.

[Drydock]

Of course, now you need this book:

http://www.4570book.info/

[Pitspitr]

Bring it with you to the department of Missouri muster and we'll compare all the parts with all my trapdoor reference books

[Silver Creek Slim]

Thanks for the info.

Here are some pictures.







Slim

[Drydock]

Very nice!  Clearly visible cartouche, metal parts still countersunk, indicating no stock refinish.  First impression: That is not a parts gun!  Is the Proof "P" still visible?  Missing the sling swivels, but those are easily found.  As has been said, while an M1873 block is not likely, it is possible, and the patina of that block seems to match the rifle very well!  If not original to the gun, at the very least a very old addition.  I myself would not hesitate to shoot this one.

A fine rifle. Well done!

[Trailrider]

I'd have to agree that the breechblock is probably original to the gun. As was said by Hopalong Strong, the Armory used up parts on hand with little regard to date stampings. Especially on WWII and Korea weapons, if I see one with "all original" part numbers, drawing numbers, etc., I get extremely suspicious that some collector has "blueprinted" the gun. What the military was interested in was a serviceable arm, not a "pure" collection of parts. Even 19th and early 20th Century U.S. arms were subject to field modifications, replacement of worn/broken parts, etc. Looks like a good piece. Have fun!

[River City John]

Nice find, Slim.
Like to see it in action.

RCJ

[Pitspitr]

So is serial # 3581XX or just 3581X

[Silver Creek Slim]

Very nice!  Clearly visible cartouche, metal parts still countersunk, indicating no stock refinish.  First impression: That is not a parts gun!  Is the Proof "P" still visible?  Missing the sling swivels, but those are easily found.  As has been said, while an M1873 block is not likely, it is possible, and the patina of that block seems to match the rifle very well!  If not original to the gun, at the very least a very old addition.  I myself would not hesitate to shoot this one.

A fine rifle. Well done!

Yes the Proof "P" is till visible.
I have already shot it. It shoots very well.

So is serial # 3581XX or just 3581X

3581XX

Slim

[Drydock]

Hot diggity!  Time to start knocking down steel!

[Silver Creek Slim]

Shot some yogurt containers. 

Slim

[Texas Lawdog]

Slim, I've got an 1884 rifle and a got a bayonet to fit it from a military antique place. I really like mine. I you get lots of enjoyment out of it.  Congrats. Slim.

[pony express]

Shot some yogurt containers. 

Slim

Slim, if they were the single serving size yougurt containers, that would be some good shooting!

[Delmonico]

Shot some yogurt containers. 

Slim

If they were full good for you.