shooting an original spencer carbine

[shilohdiver]

i have a 1865 original spencer carbine.  i currently mold flat nose bullets and load in starline 56-50 brass with 40 grains of ffg black powder.  the problem i am having is getting the brass to extract from the carbine.  i contacted s and s firearms about a thicker extractor but was told they dont sell one and reccomended i solder a piece of metal to the extractor to make it thicker.  after looking at the extractor, it doesnt look like i could put much of a piece of metal along side of the extractor and dont think it would make much of a difference.  is anyone shooting an original spencer and loading and extracting cartriges at will?

[Eggman]

I would recommend you find some properly made brass. Starline brass is cheap for a reason.

[G.W. Strong]

The Starline brass is not made for an original gun. It is made for a reproduction gun which uses a smaller rim. You can trim 50/70 cases or you can buy some made for a spencer. I just ordered some from Buffalo Arms. They are back ordered though. I think Dixie Gun Works has it in stock. There is also some trimmed 50/70 on Gunbroker right now.

[Perseo]

I too am looking to shoot my M1865 carbine, so your post is timely.

A few posts down you will see a member asking to buy Ballard Rifle and Cartridge Brass in 56-50.  I received a few rounds of 56-50 for my M1865 made with BR&C brass, and they extract quite nicely.  Rim width looks to be .63 to .64 (I will try to measure with a more accurate ruler!).  So, you see why the gentleman posting a few days ago would like to acquire it. 

I also got some rounds with the carbine made up of Winchester .348 brass, and they do not extract at all.  They look like a rim width of .61 or so.  I will need a knife or a ramrod to pry out the cases, kind of like Custer's troopers with the balky trapdoor Springfields (as legend has it).

I had emailed Ten-X to ask about the width of their 56-50 ammunition, and heard back yesterday from Richard that the rim width is .63, which seems encouraging (but I want to get a better measurement on my BR&C brass to be sure .63 will work well).

Can anyone comment on the Ten-X - is it appropriate for an original, or is it aimed at the reproduction carbines?

 

[Perseo]

An old 2007 post indicated that Ten-X 56-50 used Starline brass.  I asked Richard Pumerantz of Ten-X what the current brass was for Ten-X 56-50.  His email reply:


"We have used Starline, Jamison, and even had our own made in the past. Currently, the only supplier of that brass is Starline, so that is what we use. We do not use, nor reload, any 50-70 cutdown brass. I know that Starline was really made for the reproductions, since most of the originals were rimfire, but that is all we have to work with."

[Herbert]

Have you checked your chamber for burs(check under were the rimfire percusion slide contacts thechamber,if there is a bure here from dry fireing is can play havic with extraction .I have used Starline brass in my original 1865 Spencers since I could get it,from the start you need to aneal the cases or you will have extraction problems.I found if you try the Starline cases a second time after being anealed and fire-formed they will extract fine in originals,this may not fix you extraction problems but is worth a try.The other fix is to put a slight twist in the extractor and heat to blue an dunk in water,this puts the spring back in the extractor so it puts presure on the extracted cartridge all the way out(this is probley a job for a experinced smith or tinkerer as it can cause mor trouble than it fixes if done wrong),also check that the screw for the blade extractor it firm and there is no slop in the extractor

[G.W. Strong]

The other fix is to put a slight twist in the extractor and heat to blue an dunk in water,this puts the spring back in the extractor so it puts presure on the extracted cartridge all the way out(this is probley a job for a experinced smith or tinkerer as it can cause mor trouble than it fixes if done wrong),

Just a word of caution here. What you have described is the close to the process of hardening the steel. If you over harden it the steel (if it has sufficient carbon content) will become brittle. After hardening it you need to temper it. Since you said  "heat to blue" you you may get away with this. If you heat it to red and quench it in water the steel may well snap if it is not tempered. If you get it anywhere into the red area (even red in the dark) then you must temper it. 

[shilohdiver]

thanks for the advice..i loooked up brass cases on dixie gun works and i am looking at .56-.50 package of 50 for 105.00 item number ka3405..are these the ones with the wider bases that will eject?

[PvtGreg]

Track of the wolf has 50-70 brass for ~1.00 per case.  You have to cut them down, but if annealed from time to time will last a long time.

[Herbert]

Just a word of caution here. What you have described is the close to the process of hardening the steel. If you over harden it the steel (if it has sufficient carbon content) will become brittle. After hardening it you need to temper it. Since you said  "heat to blue" you you may get away with this. If you heat it to red and quench it in water the steel may well snap if it is not tempered. If you get it anywhere into the red area (even red in the dark) then you must temper it. 

The idear is to put the spring back in the extractor after it has been reshaped(original extractors has this slite twist and were made from spring steel,they ofter loose there spring because they have been under tension since 1865)as mentioned over heating is not good and it will have to be anealed and start the hole process again.This process probly should only be done by somone experinced with making springs

[Perseo]

Hey Shilohdiver, I am curious as to your moniker.  Would you mind explaining?