Tactics of using a single shot carbine.

[Doug.38PR]

We all see the westerns where so and so hero is pinned down somewhere outnumbered in the desert, mountains, canyon, and whips out his Winchester/Henry repeater and keeps the charging or on foot hidden Indians/Bandits/Outlaws/Yankees at bay working that lever action.

How would one handle such situations if he had a single shot Trapdoor or a Sharps carbine in his saddle either in a defensive or offensive situation?   (we know men were armed with such back then, such as the Texas Rangers following the War were armed with .50 caliber Sharps carbines)   (as far as movies go, Glen Campbell seemed to handle his Sharps better than he could act  in True Grit    )  

One thought: What those guns lack in rapid fire/capacity they make up for in range and power.  I also understand you can speed up firepower a bit by holding four shells in between your fingers of your weak hand while it holds the stock grabbing one each time you eject a spent shell.  I tried that once with my trapdoor, but it didn't feel like it sped things up too much as opposed to loading from my belt pouch

[1961MJS]

Hi

From my reading, but I forgot where, the Trapdoor Springfield was picked over the Winchesters because the single shot was faster to shoot 100 rounds.  PERSONALLY, I think a mix of Repeaters and single shots would have been good.  I also THINK that the idea was for a group of soldiers to keep each other covered and not all be empty at the same time.

Just my $0.02 and worth EVERY penny

[St. George]

Senior Army Ordnance Officers saw the repeater as being potentially wasteful, and prone to being more easily damaged - thus, the single-shot carbine and rifle was deemed preferable.

Modern-day personal opinions aside - this was the norm at that time, and while the odd repeater may've been personally owned by an Officer, he was on his own hook to purchase ammunition, and being impecunious, many stuck with what was then in issue.

'Infantry Tactics' by Upton explains how to fight.

Civilians - theoretically having more money - usually would purchase a repeater if they deemed it useful both for hunting as well as needed for defense, but if they didn't live an imperiled life, or if they were familiar with it, then they were just as well off with a good single-shot.

Scouts Out!

[Trailrider]

If you were seriously outnumbered, on the defensive, and the enemy was equipped with (1) bows and arrows...which are rapid fire arms, capable of high-trajectory as well as direct fire; or (2) with repeating arms, you were generally TOAST! (See Custer, G.A., Lt. Col., 7th Cav.    OTOH, if you were armed with single-shot breechloaders, and the enemy was armed primarily with bows, arrows and lances, and have previously encountered only muzzleloaders, you might do fairly well. (See The Wagon Box Fight.) While repeating arms could be quite effective, defensive positions and numbers could play a major part in the success or failure.  For example, Lt. Grummond had Spencers and two civilians accompanying his outfit had Henry Repeating Rifles during the Fetterman Fight, they lasted the longest of Fetterman's troops, but eventually either ran out of ammo or were simply overwhelmed. Conversely, dug in, and mainly armed with Spencers, at least one Henry and a couple of cal. .50 Trapdoor Springfield single-shots, Maj. Sandy Forsyth's Scouts were able to hold off a bunch of Cheyenne warriors at the Beecher Island Fight.

[pony express]

Most likely if he was in the saddle, he would draw his revolver instead of trying to reload the carbine.

I guess if he was infantry and didn't have a revolver, then he might be toast of there were that many and that close.


I've tried speeding it up in a CAS situation, by pulling 2 rounds at a time from my Mills belt, load one, hold the other between thumb and forefinger, pull trigger with middle finger. Works better when targets are big and close as in SASS shooting.

RO leared to duck real quick when I started using the trapdoor, when he stands behind your right shoulder, brass is coming straight at him!

[Drydock]

It depends on the user far more than the weapon system.  You've heard the saying "Beware the man who owns but one gun?"  Likely because he's good with it, knows what it can do, and how to best use it.  I've seen AK 47 wielders fill the air with bullets, calmly taken down by someone with a 5 shot bolt action.  Do you have cover and know how to use it?  Can you estimate ranges and know the sight settings needed.?  Does your ammunition match your sight settings?  

Does your determination match your skill.  Alvin York took out a Maxim nest with a 1917 Enfield, and forced over 100 armed troops to surrender, with only that rifle and a 1911.  He was skilled, he was determined, and he knew what he could do with what he had.

I would comment that Custer lost only half of his command.  The other half, with the same weapons, facing the same warriors with the same weapons, but kept together as a cohesive unit and dug in, maintained their postition until relieved.  Tactics, not weapons, determined the outcome at Little Big Horn (Greasy Grass)  A few months later, Nelson Miles and the 5th Infantry pushed Sitting Bull and his warriors over 20 miles at Cedar Creek.  The 5th was well trained, Miles demanded firm discipline, and his tactics were superb, utilizing a moving square formation for much of the pursuit.

[cpt dan blodgett]

Notice those that succeeded in driving Sitting Bull 20 Miles at Cedar Creek were Infantry.

[Drydock]

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,47503.0.html

I think the McNelly quote says a lot!

[Trailrider]

One thing to remember is that until after the LBH battle, the Army paid very little attention to marksmanship training, except on an individual company commander's emphasis. (Although as posted, Col. Miles apparently did emphasize it.) An additional problem was the limited supply of ammo to be utilized for practice as authorized by Congress' budgets back then. Three to five rounds per man per month was all the .45-70 ammo permitted for target practice. When some leftover carbines or rifles were available, company commanders utilized .50-70 ammo, of which there was apparently plenty. But it wasn't until the 1880's that the Army began to concentrate on shooting skills, with awards for top marksmanship.