Sharps Factory Markings

[Calico Kirby]

I've posted this in another spot also, so I apologize in advance if this is not the right place to ask this question.  As a living historian and somewhat hard-core old west reenactor, I'm interested in having my Italian made Sharps carbine defarbed Before having it refinished with the period correct bluing and casehardening, I was hoping to have the Sharps factory roll marks (patent dates) applied.  Does anyone know of a source that could help me with this?  Thank you very much for your help and time.

CK.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Contact this guy:  http://harpersferrycivilwarguns.com/services

[Bugscuffle]

I'm not trying to be judgemental here Pard. I'm just asking a question. Are you sure that you want to get THAT period correct? It appears to me that going as far as you are suggesting is very close to those guns that are sold to inexperienced collectors as "authentic" for big bucks. 

[Calico Kirby]

I'm not trying to be judgemental here Pard. I'm just asking a question. Are you sure that you want to get THAT period correct? It appears to me that going as far as you are suggesting is very close to those guns that are sold to inexperienced collectors as "authentic" for big bucks. 

I know a lot of people will say I'm probably going overboard on this, and I'm not going to say they're wrong (my wife would certainly agree)...but it enhances the experience for me.
The group I'm with is VERY serious about authenticity and we really try to do it right.  LOTS of research goes into everything we wear or carry.  Certainly the public isn't going to know if it's a pair of early 1870's chaps or a pair of late 1880's chaps, but I do and my fellows do, so to that point and purpose, it helps my experience.

I'm sure there are people who don't scruple from selling similar items, but in my opinion, the fake would have to be very good and/or the buyer very inexperienced.  Either way, it would be a lesson dearly purchased and I suppose no one will ever be able to keep the fool and his money from parting.  I'm not interested in teaching anyone a lesson....just re-living the old days as closely as I can. 

[Bugscuffle]

As I said before I don't want to sound judgemental and I'm sure that if you are aware of the posibility of the gun being sold by someone less scrupulous than you, then I'm quite sure that there is no problem.

[St. George]

The metric threads will be a dead giveaway - as will the overall configuration.

Putting any money - much less the kind of money you'd need to achieve the goal of re-rolling/marking an Italian clone - into this project is foolish.

The amount would pretty much buy an original, by the time this project is finished.

Scouts Out!

[Delmonico]

Besides re-rolling the wood would have to be changed.  The cheap Juglans regia (European Walnut)  looks so different that the often decent quality  Juglans nigra (American Black Walnut)  used on the originals that to re mark one with out going to black walnut would be laughable because anyone with an eye for wood could see it at a distance where the roll marks you'd have to be right in my face to see it. 

Of course if you want to nit pick, the walnut you get most times today is different than the stuff used on a Sharps from the period.

Be careful of the term hard-core, those are some of the funniest guys at times.  If you don't believe that read Confederates in the Attic.  The guy the book is about goes to such lengths he goes too far sometimes and is still not Period Correct.

As for the metric threads, that is so simple that if anyone fell for that I'd want to know how to get a hold of them to sell them a bridge or two.  I tend to think we over protect stupid people and instead we should let them die out as an unfit sub-species.

[Professor Marvel]

This is only my opinion, and not knowing the re-enactment group may be entirely worthless.... 

however...

One might well ask if simply drawfiling the barrel clean of any marks might not be sufficient, since a gunsmith-rebarrel could have been done a t any time ...

And Del's comment on the wood would make for an interesting arguement discussion  point.

If in fact you were to somehow fabricate reasonable markings I myself would be inclined to mark the barrel with a makers mark and modern date under the fore-arm, thus precluding any of the possible infamous .... issues.

yhs
prof marvel

[Calico Kirby]

Thanks to all those who weighed in...

CK.

[Delmonico]

And Del's comment on the wood would make for an interesting arguement discussion  point.



yhs
prof marvel

Well I always find it so funny the "hard cores"  always worry about markings that are lucky to be seen by anyone let alone more that 2 foot away and don't worry about they type of wood that can be noticed at a much greater distance.

Kinda like the guys you see in Civil War camps and even on the History Channel shows, they are all frying fat back in their cute little tin skillets or on a half a canteen.  It's sure as heck salt pork like was issued in the time period 'cause when the bought it at the store it said "salt pork" on it.   

Some of the ones that call themselves "hard cores" are some of the funniest I've ever seen at times because a lot of them have reached perfection as far as their knowledge goes and will go no further.  The non-perfect new person most often wants to learn. 

I hope this doesn't offend you Calico, but I've been doing this a while and I've seen a lot of the kind that use the term "hard core" and a lot of them find faults in others with out being asked, but they get very POed when someone points out theirs. 

[Calico Kirby]

I hope this doesn't offend you Calico, but I've been doing this a while and I've seen a lot of the kind that use the term "hard core" and a lot of them find faults in others with out being asked, but they get very POed when someone points out theirs. 

No offense taken.  I'd be the first to admit I don't know it all.  And I'm sure as heck not going to argue with someone that takes issue with any of my gear – provided they can truly prove it's not correct.  I, too, have done this stuff for a while and I've come a long way.  But I'll not say I've arrived yet...

Thanks again to everyone that responded.  You just confirmed what I already knew...I need to buy an original.

[Ranch 13]

The group I'm with is VERY serious about authenticity and we really try to do it right.  LOTS of research goes into everything we wear or carry.  Certainly the public isn't going to know if it's a pair of early 1870's chaps or a pair of late 1880's chaps, but I do and my fellows do, so to that point and purpose, it helps my experience.

just re-living the old days as closely as I can. 

How many of ya show up to your doins wearing the same clothes you've had on for the past couple of weeks, which probably also coincideds with the last time you had a bath or shaved?
How many of ya got britches crusted to your legs cuz of the mix of horsesweat, dust, cowshit, and your own sweat and blood.
Do any of you have windburned faces and little melanoma's showing around your ears and the back of your neck?
How many of ya know anything about a cow or a horse other than what the kid passes you thru the drive up window?

[Calico Kirby]

How many of ya show up to your doins wearing the same clothes you've had on for the past couple of weeks, which probably also coincideds with the last time you had a bath or shaved?

Actually, more than just a couple of us.

How many of ya got britches crusted to your legs cuz of the mix of horsesweat, dust, cowshit, and your own sweat and blood.

You'd be surprised.

Do any of you have windburned faces and little melanoma's showing around your ears and the back of your neck?
How many of ya know anything about a cow or a horse other than what the kid passes you thru the drive up window?

Really??

[Ranch 13]

Yup really

[Calico Kirby]

Yup really

"Some ancient Italian maxim fits our situation, whose particulars escape me."

[Ranch 13]

 Well at any rate, like they said before, your best bet would be to just get one of the real ones.
Most of the Sharps markings are trademarks owned by either Shiloh or C Sharps, and anybody sticking those on an Italian gun is probably letting his/herself in for some trouble at some point. Plus by the time you got Gwedo's stamping's ground out of the receiver and barrel etc, and the serial number took off the ATFE boys might be wanting to take notice...

[Delmonico]

So if one of these "hard-core" fellas shows up in my camp, I might feed him if he stays down wind.  What I've always wondered and I can never get anything but a stare out of them when I ask, is if they drop over with a heart attack am I to go find my hidden cell phone, turn it on and call 911 or should we all stand around, comment that he is having a heart attack and say, "to bad there is nothing we can do out here on the prairie in 1875, not even a Doctor."

Of course this is the same cell phone I have turned on and watched Doppler radar on some rather hairy nights till 3 or 4 in the morning making sure if a "cyclone" develops I can get my friends sleeping in their canvas tents enough warning to seek better shelter.    Had one go over us and drop about two miles away before I had a phone I could do it with.

[Ranch 13]

So if one of these "hard-core" fellas shows up in my camp, I might feed him if he stays down wind.  What I've always wondered and I can never get anything but a stare out of them when I ask, is if they drop over with a heart attack am I to go find my hidden cell phone, turn it on and call 911 or should we all stand around, comment that he is having a heart attack and say, "to bad there is nothing we can do out here on the prairie in 1875, not even a Doctor."

Of course this is the same cell phone I have turned on and watched Doppler radar on some rather hairy nights till 3 or 4 in the morning making sure if a "cyclone" develops I can get my friends sleeping in their canvas tents enough warning to seek better shelter.    Had one go over us and drop about two miles away before I had a phone I could do it with.

Now there ya go again Del

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

"Some ancient Italian maxim fits our situation, whose particulars escape me."

I only know a few Latin sayings, like;

In Vino Veritas, and

Illegitimati Non Carborundum

[Ranch 13]

Shucks here all this time I thought the Belgians were the ones that produced the maximum gun.. .. That really won't fit into the authentic  cowboy deal.