Percussion shotguns in competitions

[harleydavis]

I am curious as to how many NCOWS shooters are using percussion shotguns in matches? Wasnt common years ago when I was shooting a lot, have many shooters begun to use them?

[Pancho Peacemaker]

We have 2 or 3 shooters in the N Texas area that show up with percussion scatterguns.  One shooter, Greysmoke out at the Texas Peacemakers shoots one at just about every match.

[J.D. Goodguy]

If the proposed class changes are approved, there won't be a class for those of us who want to shoot these shotguns.

[Books OToole]

If I recall correctly (big if), a percussion shotgun is what is supposed to be used in the Pistoleer Class, but we allow cartridge twice-shooters.

Books

[OklaTom]

If I recall correctly (big if), a percussion shotgun is what is supposed to be used in the Pistoleer Class, but we allow cartridge twice-shooters.

Books

Actually, By-Law 10-1 specifically states percussion or cartridge.

[Yuma Kid]

Harley,
While a percussion shotgun is legal to use in any NCOWS shooting category that uses a shotgun, it is only the Pistoleer class that you would be on equal footing with other competitors in your class.  In all other classes you would have take the misses for any more that 2 rounds or reload which in my opinion would not be a practical option.
Yuma

[Dynamite Bill]

it looks like the new proposed class structure does not show a shotgun at all in the pisoleer class, or does it?

[Mad_Dog]

it looks like the new proposed class structure does not show a shotgun at all in the pisoleer class, or does it?

That will be most unfortunate .  I was REALLY looking forward to pistoleer with a percussion shotgun... I'm also wondering if a revolving carbine is legal so I could shoot 4 percussion guns

-Mad Dog

[Major 2]

Harley,
While a percussion shotgun is legal to use in any NCOWS shooting category that uses a shotgun, it is only the Pistoleer class that you would be on equal footing with other competitors in your class.  In all other classes you would have take the misses for any more that 2 rounds or reload which in my opinion would not be a practical option.
Yuma

Yuma is correct , and as OT pointed out By-law 10-1....

It is also correct that the current proposed  change would take any SXS out of Pistoleer.  
I'm with Mad_Dog  that would be unfortunate.  

CCC has two shooters using a front stuffer in Pistoleer.

AS to : "I'm also wondering if a revolving carbine is legal so I could shoot 4 percussion guns"

I would assume you mean the Remington revolving 1866 Replica ?  

It is neather approved or listed on disapproved lists....  

Your 1st. issue is the only 5 shots ( load 5 of 6 rule ) most stages require 9-10 or more shots ( with reloads )

2nd. You would have to submit documentation written or period photos show providence along with your request for approval to
The National Judge who along with his authenticity committee for a formal review...

FYI -  I am the current National Judge , so you could forward your request to me ...my email is posted.

[Mogorilla]

I just wish the Front stuffing shotguns were cheaper!   Every other Italian clone is real reasonable.  I kick myself for passing up a nice 12 gauge percussion side by side for $200, included a pound of powder and shot.   I was $ poor at the moment.  Ug. 

I like the revolving carbines, but I have never seen documentation with them being used in the west.  I know that many were converted of the limited production.  I like my 1860 colt army with a shoulder stock that is a nice shooter.  Currently the stock is on one of those brass framed buffalo remingtons, it is scarily accurate.

[Mad_Dog]

1st. issue is the only 5 shots ( load 5 of 6 rule ) most stages require 9-10 or more shots ( with reloads )

The Spencer shares this problem, though I suspect cartridges are alot easier to handle for an on-the-clock reload than caps are!

2nd. You would have to submit documentation written or period photos show providence along with your request for approval to
The National Judge who along with his authenticity committee for a formal review...

Wow, sounds like I've got some homework to do!  I'm assuming the evidence of it's availability (remington catalog, etc) would not suffice, and it's actual presence in the old west would need to be verified?


thanks!
-Mad Dog

[Major 2]

Remington catalog  ( either original , copied from the original ) is providence...

Also #'s produced or delivered,  perhaps a period photo with one in the subject matter.
An original account  I:E:  letter of use , or order(s) for one.

any two of above will help your petition....What will not work is Film providence such as use as props in "Man with no name" Films & Lonesome Dove"


This is from Flaydermans Guide (providence BTW)
 Revolving Percussion RIFLE made c. 1866-1879, total quantity estimated at less that 1,000. Caliber .36 and .44 with barrels of 24" and 28" standard.
Although built on the frame of the NEW MODEL revolver series, the cylinder is 3/16" longer that the New Model Army revolver. It also has a special extra long length loading lever which is an important feature in identifying authentic specimens.


Should you find your proof ,
You still left with 5 Round count ( course you could change Cylinders on the clock )  

[harleydavis]

Harley,
While a percussion shotgun is legal to use in any NCOWS shooting category that uses a shotgun, it is only the Pistoleer class that you would be on equal footing with other competitors in your class.  In all other classes you would have take the misses for any more that 2 rounds or reload which in my opinion would not be a practical option.
Yuma

Well, anyone that knows me will know that my shooting skills give me a distinct disadvantage anyway!! BUT.............I look damned good whilst I am a-missin!!!!!!!!!!!!! Most all of my past awards were for lookin purty......, well, okay, my lovely wife Patience, got the awards fer looking good and I just happened to be standin next to her!!!!

Maybe I will go back to my first thought for style points and start to load brass shot hulls.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I have produced paper cartridges for percussion shotguns.  They work if you have nothing better, LIKE A CARTRIDGE GUN, a bit less time-consuming to load but still not up to a 10-10-4 stand and deliver.

I did it after researching some gunfights in British Columbia in 1862.  

1. The bad guys fueding over control of the saloons in Stud Horse Creek, were confronted by the miners committee armed with shotguns.  One bad guy had pulled a Dragoon on the other but only took off his ear finger. The other guy named "Yeast Powder Bill" finished the job properly, was arrested for murder but  was acquited at trial the next day by the newly arrived Magistrate on the basis of self-defence.  He was then run outta town! The shot guns were not fired.

2. In a different incident a horse thief named "One Eared Charlie".  (In his previous career as a bootlegger in Victoria he was shot by a jail guard - thus suffering the loss of his ear & dignity.) When caught by a posse including the rancher, Charlie shot the only BC Consable in the area.  He was chased by a posse of shotgun armed miners across the line heading to Bonner's Ferry. He was ambushed by the miners and filled full of buckshot as he charged them with his Dragoon blazing.

I patterned my Navy Arms 12 gauge, loaded with .31 roundball poured from a LEE mould, at 25 yards. Both left and right covered a one-foot circle. (Don't castigate me too much for boasting!)

I thought I had posted my procedures before but a quick search didn't help.  I will look around again but if anyone wishes I will PM them my write-up.

Here it is;  http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,8870.msg106431.html#msg106431

[Pancho Peacemaker]

. . .The other guy named "Yeast Powder Bill"

I'd love to know the origin of that name.  Perhaps one too many visits to the "bargain basement" sporting houses?

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I'd love to know the origin of that name.  Perhaps one too many visits to the "bargain basement" sporting houses?

I've wondered.  This fellow travelled to BC from the Northern Plains, around Walla Walla & Fort Colville. A review of the Black Hills gold play might show him. Many of our characters during the 1858 goldrush were American but I've never seriously tried to track down their antecedents.

[harleydavis]

Here's another thought on ol'  Yeast Powder Bill. Yeast powder is used in making beer, could be that Bill was a good beer maker and/or beer drinker and hence the nickname of Yeast Powder Bill. Things was called different things back in the day. Whiskey was called "bug juice" and here is a Canadian connect for you. Fort Hamilton (near Lethbridge Alberta) was built in 1869 and came to be called Fort Whoop-Up. Evidently this moniker is derived from the bull whackers getting the bulltrains moving with bull-whips, a process called "whooping them up". A couple of fellers concoted Whoop-up Bug Juice and sold it right out of the fort to the Blackfoot Indians who were called "Bugs Boys" by trapper Joe Meeker (originally he called them Beelzebub's Boys meaning "Sons of the Devi" but it got shortened up a bit).  Whoop-up Bug Juice was made from alcohol spiked with ginger, molasses & red peppers. Colored black with chewing tobacco, wattered down and boiled and became true "fire water"!!! Sounds like some mighty tasty stuff. So, maybe Yeast Powder Bill was related to the bootleg business? Just wonderin...........

[Capt. JEB Forrest]

What is with the constant messing with shooting catagories/classes?

I understand that NCOWS is based on more historical accuracy then SASS, but I feel it can go too far. I shoot pistoleer and just got a hammered gun to be total gun legal. I see no reason to drop shotgun from the class. I like shooting 4 guns.

On the other hand, requiring a percussion shotgun would not be affordable and exclude me from shooting any regional or above match.

I guess I am wondering is NCOWS becoming more a reenactment group with some shooting as a sideline?

I enjoy the historical accuracy that NCOWS offers. I shoot SASS and NCOWS. I have been in both for awhile. I joined both mostly for the shooting aspect. I was glad when the oppertunity came to help form a posse near by. In fact, I enjoy my NCOWS matches more as time goes on.

I made paperboard cartridge boxes, use no gun cart, use brass shotgun shells, try to hide modern materials and such. So a historical element is no problem.

I accept the two or three gun classes as an attempt at historical correctness and the benefits it provides to cut costs for folks on tight budgets and newcomers.

But I think we are nearing a philosopical line we may not want to cross.

[bowiemaker]

I like the rest of the class restructuring proposal and based on the two polls NCOWS conducted it seems like most wanted some changes. I have no idea why the shotgun was dropped from Pistoleer. I hope the proposal can be amended to leave Pistoleer alone and adopt the rest of the proposal.

[Pancho Peacemaker]

I like the rest of the class restructuring proposal and based on the tow polls NCOWS conducted it seems like most wanted some changes. I have no idea why the shotgun was dropped from Pistoleer. I hope the proposal can be amended to leave Pistoleer alone and adopt the rest of the proposal.

My understanding is the proposals were based on what a majority of folks voted for in the 2 surveys.