Kinda Cute, Actually...

[Guns Garrett]

I recently made a purchase on GunBroker - a Mark II Adams revolver, circa 1872.  I have not taken delivery yet, but being my usual impatient self, I have loaded some of the .450 Revolver cartridges for it.

What can I say - they're CUTE.  Case is only .690" long (shorter than a .44 Russian,or .44 American), and with a 200 gr RNFP bullet, measures right at 1.000" OAL.  Same length overall as a .22 LR, only twice as wide.

Kinda looks like a BB Cap - only grown up.

Load I am using is 13 gr FFFG (geeze, my .36 Navy took 20!) in modified .455 Webley cases (cut to .690", available from Buffalo Arms).  This give a nearly full case, with room for slight compression when seating.  Used Lee Webley .455 (MkII) dies.

Will post pics when my new baby arrives...

[Silver Creek Slim]

Congrats, Guns.

Slim

[RattlesnakeJack]

Yes, we'll definitely want to see photos when it gets there, Dave! 

Is Penny speaking to you yet?    

For that matter, will she ever speak to me again?   
(No .... the revolver didn't come from me, but I just love helping other folks spend their money!)

[Niederlander]

What are friends for, if not to help spend your money wisely?!

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Hi,

I wish I was up on my Btit/Canadian history .... I had to look this up ...

Here is a pick from a dealer:



Unfortunately, I will have to live with its newer cousin .... a MK VI Webley

[RattlesnakeJack]

Wadd, the picture you've posted is actually a "Third Model" (Mark III in War Department terminology) which is the version I have.  Guns has been fortunate enough to get a Second Model (Mark II) which looks like this -



The Second Model was actually the first Adams revolver designed and purpose-built for metallic cartridges!  (The "Mark I" or "First Model" was really just a conversion of an earlier 5-chambered cap & ball design.)  The primary difference between the Mark II and Mark III was in the cartridge ejection system.  As you can see, the Mark II had a "fixed rod" system which operated much like that on a Colt Single Action - albeit with no "return spring".  The Mark III incorporated an "improved" ejection system in which an ejection rod, normally housed up the center of the cylinder axis pin) pulls out and pivots aside to eject empty cartridge casing in the chamber aligned  with the ejection port - as you should be able to visualize from your photo above and this image of my Third Model -



The Second Model revolver which Guns has scored is unfortunately in need of a bit of TLC, the biggest problem being that it is missing its ejection rod, but we have determined that is a pretty simple piece, likely quite easy to fabricate.  (Unless he wants me to, I won't intrude further into Dave's "space" to post photos of his new toy, nor the photos we have viewed to come to our conclusions.)

Although .450 Adams cartridges are (and always have been) centerfire, as you can see they do look about like extremely obese .22 Long Rifle cartridges before going on a crash diet and losing over half their girth!

[Guns Garrett]

Here is a photo of the revolver I purchased, from the GunBroker listing (top picture):

As RSJ pointed out, it is missing the ejector rod and catch, but it appears to be a fairly simple arrangement. (See second picture)  The rod has a couple of "detents" or notches in it.  There was a lever that entered the frame from the right side, which cammed into these notches, to hold the rod in place.  The cylinder bolt does NOT engage unless cocked (single- and double-action); the cylinder can free-wheel when not cocked.  The rod could be slid back into the mouth of a chamber and locked, holding the cylinder in place - just remember to move the rod back forward before using!

[Guns Garrett]

Going back and checking my "facts", I find I am in error about the cylinder lock-up.  Rather than having a "bolt", it appears the cylinder is locked by a "hump" on the top of the trigger that rises as the trigger is pulled.  More of a "cylinder stop", rather than a bolt.  I will have to check the mechanism after I receive it to see how (or if) it works in single-action.

[pony express]

That's a similar lockup arranement to many of the top break pocket pistols of the 1800s. The cylinder is "trapped" between the stop on the trigger, and the hand pushing it from the other direction. 1892 Colt Army works basically the same, but with a second cylinder bolt to keep it from freewheeling.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Guns Garrett, Rattlesnake Jack et al.

I stand corrected and educated: as I said, I know little of the Adams Revolvers ... it seems I know little of my Wobley!

(Although it does say Mark VI /Patents 1916 on left side of the receiver ... I  just checked ....

Since it is miss-maked, does that mean it is worth more?

TTFN,

And Rattlesnake Jack, thank you for the recommendation of the 'Lighthorseman'; I have watched it many times and have it now loaned out to a Texas Pal...

[Guns Garrett]

I am happy to report that my Adams Mk II revolver arrived today.  In extremely good condition, though in need of a couple of easily-made parts (see above).  

It will make a fine Period-Correct match to go with my Martini-Henry carbine I shot at the last Muster.  The Martini will be fed milder loads next time.  The ones I shot at the Muster were full-house rifle loads, not carbine.  I plan to do a British Impression for the next one - RSJ always seemed so lonely...

NO!   NO!!   NO!!!     Kilts are OUT!!!  

[RattlesnakeJack]

.... it seems I know little of my Wobley! ....(Although it does say Mark VI /Patents 1916 on left side of the receiver ... I  just checked .... Since it is miss-maked, does that mean it is worth more? ....

Why do you say it is mis-marked?  (Sounds like the correct markings .....)

Aye, "The Lighthorsemen" is fair dinkum ..... a real bonzer doco!

[Guns Garrett]

Comparative sizes, left to right:  .450 Adams,  .45 Colt,  .577-.450 Martini-Henry

[WaddWatsonEllis]

 RSJ,

I was just making a jole at my expense .... the Mk VI has the right markings ...

GG,

To comment on your original post, the longer one looks at British guns the less ugly they become ... they were designed for warfare and they did their job remarkably ...kind of a 'Form follows Function" kinda thing ...

[Guns Garrett]

I've heard the comment, more or less, that: "The German Mauser makes an excellent hunting rifle, the American Springfield a fine target rifle, and the British SMLE is a weapon to fight with."

[RattlesnakeJack]

And it has been said that the short-lived Canadian Ross service rifle was "the finest target rifle to fail dismally as a battle rifle" .....  

Further to Guns' cartridge comparison, here is the relatively "cute" U.S. .45-70 Government cartridge, flanked by the British service rifle cartridges of the same era - the .577 Snider and .577/.450 Martini-Henry -

[WaddWatsonEllis]

GG,

True, True .... but I'll take an M! over a.303 Enfield any day ... even with the ding of he clip holder when it is unloaded ....

TTFN,

[RattlesnakeJack]

True, True .... but I'll take an M! over a.303 Enfield any day ... even with the ding of he clip holder when it is unloaded ....

Hmmmmm ...... the Germans likely thought much the same thing during both WWI and WWII .....  

[Edit:  Ooops,  thought your "M!" meant "Mauser", within the context of Guns' posting -  but I now realize you meant "M1" .... I guess your "ding" comment should have clued me in!  Might have to concede that to you - the 30-06 cartridge is undoubtedly ballistically superior to the .303 .... and a rapidly recharged 8-shot semi-auto is more comforting that even a 10-shot bolt action, fast as the latter may be to operate ....]

[Guns Garrett]

Compared to a Colt SAA:

[pony express]

As to the M-1 "ping", I'd say that it doesn't matter, unless you are alone, in a group everyone isn't going to be empty at once. And if you're alone and the enemy is close enough to hear.....you better already have the bayonet fixed, because you're in big trouble!