Need a "Period Correct" finish for my ASM 160 transition

[Bonnie_blue1861]

I just picked up a ASM 1860 "type I" transition today in .38special. (The Richards Type I transition gun... that never really was...without the rebated cylinder that looks more like an 1861).

But that aside... it has a pretty case hardened frame and a deeply blued finish....but it just screams reproduction. The finish in my opinion just does not look correct at all for a gun that represents a transition gun from the old west. With the correct finish I think it will look much better than a finish which seems more appropriate for a modern revolver

Despite the fact that I have in the past "antiqued" guns...I don't want to do that in this case. I'd like to redo the finish, but only to make it look quite similar to how it would have looked new or somewhat used but still well cared for. (Maybe more like a 1 year old gun)

I used Laurel Mountain Rust Browning in the past, once on an 1860 percussion and it left my percussion gun looking pretty darn used and pitted. Now...in that specific case...I was ok with that, because I wanted a antiqued, abused and worn look... but for this transition model, I still want a pretty finish...maybe a plum type finish or whatever would have been "correct" back in the late 1860's to early 1870's.

I'm not sure if Colt had more of a Rust Blued look when new or more of a plum blued look, etc. I love the look of an aged blue that has started turned to plum...perhaps I'd consider that.... but I don't want it looking abused.

Any suggestions? I just don't want to end up with a gun that's all pitted up and looks like it was stored in a barrel of rock salt for a year. 

[Pettifogger]

Some of the percussion Colts that I have looked at that had considerable amounts of original finish were a bright blue.  What Colt in later years called Royal blue.  It was not black like modern "blue" but they certainly didn't look "antiqued."  Look at the post from the guy that cold rust blued his.  That might be more what you are looking for.  But, the finish on the gun is not that far off from what a new gun looked like in 1871.

[Bonnie_blue1861]

I was just checking that thread you mentioned:
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,47109.0.html

... then looking around online for some replica photos.

Of course.... when you search/google/whatever for a new Colt finish..all you end up with, is pictures of guns that are 150 years old.

[Coffinmaker]

Well..... The ASM you have actually makes up a "fair" approximation of an 1861 conversion that never existed, but 90 percent of the current production conversion are intended to look "fine from the freeway."  Unfortunately, your ASM is also about as reliable as a Hugo.  Well, almost as reliable as a Hugo.  I would hesitate to put much effort or money into it.
Having said all that, most of the original conversions I've had the pleasure of fondeling, looked 150 years old.  The guns Ina museum and collections were as Pettifogger described, Bright Blue.  About the only way to acquire it is a professional re-blue.  Cimarron offers it as a optional finish.
If you have much over 250 bucks in yours, your in too deep already.  Unless, you just wanna do it for fun.  Then go for it.

Coffinmaker

[Coffinmaker]

PS:  The term "Period Correct" should be banished from the english language.  FOREVER

Coffinmaker

[Bonnie_blue1861]

Coffinmaker....I'm just taking a wild guess here.... but I don't think you like ASM's.

Their hit and miss quality, soft internal parts and reliability has been discussed in several other threads pertaining to that subject.

So lets move completely past that, since a discussion about the quality of ASM's isn't what I'm asking about.

I'm asking about a correct looking finish ...if my ASM, (or for that matter; a perfectly preserved original 1860 conversion) manufactured by Colt, in the late 1860' into the early 1870's would have looked like.

So since I just want to do it for fun....when Colt put a finish on one of their conversions, would it have been close to what Petrinal is sharing with us here?: http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,47109.0.html

[Pettifogger]

Coffinmaker....I'm just taking a wild guess here.... but I don't think you like ASM's.

Their hit and miss quality, soft internal parts and reliability has been discussed in several other threads pertaining to that subject.

So lets move completely past that, since a discussion about the quality of ASM's isn't what I'm asking about.

I'm asking about a correct looking finish ...if my ASM, (or for that matter; a perfectly preserved original 1860 conversion) manufactured by Colt, in the late 1860' into the early 1870's would have looked like.

So since I just want to do it for fun....when Colt put a finish on one of their conversions, would it have been close to what Petrinal is sharing with us here?: http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,47109.0.html

Absolutely not.  They were a bright shiney blue.  The carbona blue that is on some Ubertis is fairly close.

[Major 2]

I've done more than a few replicas for on camera, film work..I kinda think I know what you are asking.

A handled look that seen some holster time .....

I use white vinegar, very sparingly  just dampen a cloth and hit the high spots and flush with soap & water to stop the Chem-action.
Pay more attention to muzzle tip and forward lead of the Cyl & high spots and less to the long smooth sides.
This is more feel to get it right , kinda imagine how the holster would rub & work the blue.

4 0000 steel wool can be a friend or an enemy, if you try this I suggest you practice you don't want to be heavy handed
just an easy light stroke one direction and stop , don't rub back and forth....

Hope that helped....


On another point... Poor ASM gets bad wrap    and in many cases  justified
However there were and are some good ones...as was said hit or miss ...
An fine Gunsmith, Dave Anderson built more than few high prized conversion from ASM's (see Dennis Adler's Book )
His own Company American Frontier Arms had some very nice ASM's.

IMHO It was bold step to produce the Richards Type I transition gun... that never really was...
and for that matter the Schofield  12-14 years eariler that the bigger players introduced theirs.

And know this, Dave Anderson produced some then USPFA prototypes for Shot Show 92-93

[Coffinmaker]

B B,

It isn't that I don't like ASM guns.  I have 5 of their conversions.  The problem is the chance of getting one that works is not good and there are no replacement parts available.  Their value has also dropped thru the floor and getting fair value is almost impossible. 

Coffinmaker

[petrinal]

 Royal blue and the blueings used by COLT until  WW1 have nothing in common as the first  one is alkaline, and the previous ones were heat blued, and, sometimes, rust blued.

Colt heat blued their revolvers in most cases, thought most conversions were nickeled.. Heat blued Army issue revolvers were, by the way, low luster. And some seem to be rust blued, as many of the confederate guns copies, thouhgt most commercial COLT revovlers were heat blued and very bright in finish.

anyway I remember seeing COLT London revolvers in great condition in UK museums which were rust blued, and also Peacemakers, with their typical low luster, thick, finish, so the method I shared in my post, is period correct. It is true that most 1860 army  and SAA revolvers were heat blued, with gives a very bright, clear finish, when well done, with carbon or bone, to avoid oxigen in the oven and get a perfect finish, as Colt did until the 1920´s.

so either:

heat blueing

rust blueing

or nickeled

are period correct finishes. Lets not forget that a good deal of revolvers were returned to factory  or gunsmiths for refinishing, as it was the case of many SAAs, some of them being refinished in Springfield armory and Frankford and being many of them rust blued.

rust blued (Oviedo 1873 tercerola rifle, made in OVIEDO arsenal, in original condition, not a Winchester made rifle.)




this rust blued method was very used specially in the period 1860-1919...and I you can see it in copies of SW revolvers, in Lugers, in european centerfire revolvers made before the turn of the century, in shotguns, in rifles...etc

all the best

[Bonnie_blue1861]

B B,

It isn't that I don't like ASM guns.  I have 5 of their conversions.  The problem is the chance of getting one that works is not good and there are no replacement parts available.  Their value has also dropped thru the floor and getting fair value is almost impossible. 

Coffinmaker

Well...Ok then if you have 5 of them...then I forgive you...even if you don't like ASM's 

But seriously...thanks for all the replies so far.

I'm leaning more towards a completely redone finish. One that I can do at home, as opposed carefully 0000 steel-wooling it, as you suggested Major 2.
I know what your saying and I like the idea... but in this case, I'm not entirely sure if that would result in the finish I'm hoping to achieve or if it might just give it a weathered look. I hope that makes enough sense.

It's just that the current highly reflective, deep blued finish sort of reminds me of the bluing on my Beretta 92 and it just doesn't look right (in my opinion) for a revolver that loosely depicts one from the late 1800's.

I'll have to investigate the "The carbona blue that is on some Ubertis" as Pettifogger mentioned. But I must admit...I really like what you did Petrinal on your other thread and that rifle finish. It looks appropriate on a well cared for rifle/revolver but it doesn't look 150 years old. 

For instance, I have an 1860 ASM percussion revolver (made in the 1970's) and the bluing is still pretty nice. You can tell it was well cared for but in a few areas, it's really starting to develop a browned appearance....I think it look down right pretty when it starts getting like that.

And yes...I must admit, it had a boat-load of problems when I bought it (second hand)...but about 25 hours of my laboring on it and now it works like a clock.

[Coffinmaker]

Have you considered electroless nickel??  Doable inna kitchen and some is tougher than electro plate.  Thr majority of factory built conversions were completed in nickel.

Coffinmaker