158 GR. RNL IN OT??

[Slamfire]

 Have 158 gr. RN LEAD,bullets with ww231 powder,,what would be the safest load for  my OT it is in 38. spl,,,,,sorry dont have loading manual,,,,,yet,,just for target or cowboy loads






Hootmix.

[wildman1]

go to hodgden.com and they list loads there, I think the minimum fer 38 spl is 3.1g. You would have to check and see what the pressure would be to make sure its ok fer yer OT. They do NOT list 231 in their section on cowboy loads. WM

[Slamfire]

thanks wildman,,,,i'll go hunt um up.








Hootmix.

[Graveyard Jack]

Yep, you need some manuals. As posted, Hodgdon's site has their data listed for free. Winchester 231 is the same as Hodgdon HP38. You can use pretty much any standard pressure, SWC or RNFP 158gr cast bullet data.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Here are the two main online reloading sources from the largest powder makers;

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/default.aspx

[Slamfire]

 Thanks to everyone for the info., i know some of the questions i ask are elementry,and i appreciate ya'lls time and effort's , may i prove to be worthy.





Hootmix.

[wildman1]

Ya already have by askin the ?. WM

[Coffinmaker]

Here are two ways to learn.  1.  Trial and error (often painful and expensive).  2.   Ask questions.  (Hopefully, good answers.

None of the Open Top guns are .357s.  Big bullets are OK, with the correct load.  Never shoot someone else's reload ammunition in your guns.  Never shoot someone else's recommended loads unless verified safe.  NEVER reload without manuals, EVER.

Coffinmaker

[Slamfire]

Gotcha!!! Thanks.








Hootmix.

[wildman1]

They do list 231 in the Lyman 49th ed. WM

[Mike]

Shoot Black in it, 18grns of 3F Goex and 158grn LFP.

Great fun and it shoots well at 25m.

The only other powder I use is Trail Boss and I use a load that the bullet sit's on top of the powder with out compression.

[Coffinmaker]

BP in a 38 is fun.  Can't get enough in a 38 case to cause trouble.  Suggesting a Smokeless load to a newby that intimates it doesn't have to be measured is irresponsible.  And stupid.

Coffinmaker

[Mike]

Suggesting a Smokeless load to a newby that intimates it doesn't have to be measured is irresponsible.  And stupid.

Trail Boss is as safe as BP as you can not over load it. Read the info on it.

I shoot cowboy loads in my 44WFC and 44 Russian and all the loads data says best results are loads up to the base of the bullet but DO NO Compress.

18 grns 3F Goex in a 38 is compressed and is not a PUSSY load. 12grns of 3F Goex in a 38 Colt case is very mild and I shoot these as well.

Powders like 231, Tite Group, AP70N can all be bouble charged with the possibility of a damaged gun if not more..

[Abilene]

...Trail Boss is as safe as BP as you can not over load it. Read the info on it.

I shoot cowboy loads in my 44WFC and 44 Russian and all the loads data says best results are loads up to the base of the bullet but DO NO Compress....

Might you post a link to this info or "all the loads data" ??  The manufacturer's load data says no such thing.  While a max load of Trailboss MAY touch the base of the bullet in some caliber/bullet combinations, it is by no means a universal given.  As an example, IMR Trailboss load data for 45LC with a 200gr cast bullet lists a minimum of 5.5 gr and a maximum of 6.5 gr.  I just checked and it appears to take approximately 10 gr. to touch the bottom of the bullet.

[Slamfire]

 I beg your pardon,,,,,,,,i resemble that remark,,,,,thats why i'm ,,,,here.






Hootmix.

[Mike]

"I just checked and it appears to take approximately 10 gr. to touch the bottom of the bullet."

10 grains to touch the bottom of a 45 head in a 45 colt..?

I will look for the data I use and try and scan it.

I use the IMR Cowboy loading data.

I have used TB in 38 44colt 44sp 44mag 45 Sch 45 Colt 303 3030  6.5mm 45-70. Not all use a full case. All with cast bullets.

We were talking 38sp with a 158grn so my load as above.

I think also what must be said here, we are dealing with a pistol which is only proofed for Black Powder so loads should be
safe for the pistol. So BP is realy all that should be used in them. If you like the modern BP sub like pyrodex or Triple Seven then ok. TB is also safer than other pistol/shotgun powders.

[Mike]

http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=37

This a good one.

"These light loads have very close to 100% load density already, you wouldn't be able to fit much more powder into the case without compressing the load."

This what I have found.

[Graveyard Jack]

I think also what must be said here, we are dealing with a pistol which is only proofed for Black Powder so loads should be safe for the pistol. So BP is realy all that should be used in them. If you like the modern BP sub like pyrodex or Triple Seven then ok. TB is also safer than other pistol/shotgun powders.

Not true at all. The Open Top model is a cartridge gun and proofed as any other modern cartridge gun in its chambering. As such, it is 100% safe for standard pressure .38Spl loads.

[Abilene]

http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=37

This a good one.

"These light loads have very close to 100% load density already, you wouldn't be able to fit much more powder into the case without compressing the load."

This what I have found.

Not being able to fit much more powder into the case without compression is not the same thing as not being able to fit ANY more powder into the case without compression. 

That is not the manufacturer's load data, nor is it an established reloading book.  It is a listing of favorite loads by handloaders (it is an interesting site that I have perused before).  Did you note the disclaimer on their load data page? 

I mentioned a 45Lc case requiring 50% more powder than IMR's maximum listed charge to touch the base of the bullet and your response is that we were talking about 38 Spcl.  So again I quote you:

"I shoot cowboy loads in my 44WFC and 44 Russian and all the loads data says best results are loads up to the base of the bullet but DO NO Compress." 

Okay, lets try 44wcf which you specifically mention.  I may be off by a tenth of a grain or so in either direction, but again when I checked this caliber for which IMR lists the same charge as 45LC, minimum 5.5 gr and maximum 6.5 gr of Trailboss, it appears to take 9 gr to touch the bottom of a 200gr bullet.  You said you used IMR's Cowboy data.  I don't think so.  When you say "all the loads data" it should at the very least include the manufacturer's load data.

I'm not saying loading Trailboss with 100% load density is dangerous or will blow up a gun.  That is not the point.  But it certainly is not a practice that is recommended by the manufacturer.

That is all I have to say on this subject.  Except to agree with CraigC that the '71-72 OT is safe with any SAAMI spec ammo.

[Mike]

Loaded some case's and my bullets are loaded with BOOK load's max of Trail Boss and they are full to the base of the bullet. COME OVER AND HAVE A LOOK.