Yearning for a Henry

[Grenadier]

Been wanting a Model 1860 Henry for sometime now. I am torn between a bronze frame and the steel frame model and the caliber selection is still in debate. For a fist time owner, any suggestions on what caliber to purchase? I am leaning towards the 44-40.

I appreciate any advice towards being a first time owner also.

[HolliferADollar]

Go with 44-40.  I have a Henry in 45LC, love it, but damn does it get dirty!  If you shoot smokeless, its just a nuisance, but with BP the carrier gets really cruddy, to the point of gumming up the works.  If I had to do it all over again, I would have bought everything in 44-40.

Holler

[MJN77]

What Hollifer said. I have a Henry and 73 Winchester in .44-40 and both will run all day on BP.

[Tascosa Joe]

From a historical stand point IMO, considering bore diameter and case length, a .45 S&W (Schofield) case with a 200 gr bullet and 28 gr of powder comes closer to replicating the original .44 Henry round than any thing else modern.  I am sure people will argue but the 44-40 was not invented and the .44 Russian is too small.  I can run all day with my .45 73 or Henry and BP, most depends on the bullet itself.

[Major 2]

If you're shooting smokeless , the issue is moot.
I have two in 45 ( 1 is Steel framed ) and one in 44/40.
The only BP rounds the 45's have ever seen are Black Dawg (Black Hills) though,
like Tj's mine have run the entire match and then some.
My 73 is in 44 Spcl. it also will run with BD/Black Hills .

Point is.... I'd get what is available at the price you find fair, either/ or Caliber , Brass or Steel.

I think 45 Cal. is easier both find, to buy or reload.

[MJN77]

Grenadier, If you plan on shooting BP, I advise you to look at the back pages in the Henry section  and see what other shooters say about 45 vs. 44s. There are several threads.

[Slowhand Bob]

I currently have a standard 24" barled 44-40 with the color case frame and have always thought it was the prettiest of all the early Winchesters.  The lack of a for end  just gives it a longer sleeker look, like a pretty girls laigs!  Over the last year or so I have been drooling over the idea of a 45 with a short barl to put in a 45 short carrier and use the short cowboy brass.  Recent events do have me reconsidering my plan. 

[wyldwylliam]

My rifle is an iron frame in .44-40.

I understand that some folks feel the .44wcf is hard to load or whatever, but I've never found that. To me it is the perfect pistol calibre round. You don't need any lube to full length size, it seals gases real well and while it was never chambered in the Henry, to my mind it is at least arguably more authentic than the .45lc which never saw the inside of a Winchester of any hue.

I also really like the look of case hardening and whether it's of any practical value or not, I at least feel like the iron frame must be stronger than the yellow stuff.

However, they all work admirably so let your own wants rule the day.

[King Medallion]

You don't need any lube to full length size,

Realy? What dies are you using? I have to lube at least once every third 44-40 case when sizing, I'm using Lyman dies.

[G.W. Strong]

Paul,
Like others have said, the question of if you will shoot Black is relevant. I shoot a 1866 in .44 special with real black powder at almost every match. You do get some mess into the action but all it takes is a bit of cleaning after the match. If you prefer the .45s you will be in the same boat I am in with my .44s. If you use 44-40 then you will have a little less cleanup. Honestly though if you are shooting black you should thoroughly clean your rifle anyway. I figure the difference between cleaning a .45 (or my .44) and a 44-40 is 5-10 minutes. It is not that big of a deal. I know you are going to clean thoroughly so get the caliber you like.

[Grenadier]

Thanks, Doug!

Been shooting BP since I was 12 years old in muzzleloaders, so I am very familiar with the mess it can make. However, there is a certain charm to the entire ritual of shooting BP...at least to me there is 

[G.W. Strong]

As long as you don't mind a tiny bit of extra cleaning then get the 45.

[Tascosa Joe]

What is the case capacity of the 45 Cowboy Special?  I have thought the short carrier and CS might be a neat package.

[HolliferADollar]

What is the case capacity of the 45 Cowboy Special?  I have thought the short carrier and CS might be a neat package.

I load the C45S with 1.3 cc of 3F black powder or subs with a 200 gn bullet, or 1 cc BP with 0.3 cc grits filler if I want to save on powder.  That volume gives you about 1/16" compression.  Both shoot great in my 4-5/8" barrel Hombres.

I also like the idea of the C45S carrier - that would be about as close as you can get to the original 44 Henry magazine capacity.  The downside is having to modify the bolt, but if you have use a spare bolt with the short carrier, you are still in good shape.

Holler

[major]

Holler
I am kind of surprised that you are measuring you black powder in cc's (by volume).  I have always thought it was measured in grains (by weight).  Why are you using cc's instead of grains?  I am not saying that it is wrong, just wondering.

[Trailrider]

I hope you don't live in N.Y. state or you will be guilty of having an "assault rifle", since the magazine capacity exceeds the seven round limitation. In other places, it is propose to limit magazine capacity to ten rounds. Unless we can get an exemption, it is gonna be tough on M1860 Henry owners/shooters!    No practicable way I know of to reduce magazine capacity of a Henry due to the design of the magazine, etc. At least in a '66 or '73, you can install a rod that limits capacity semi-permanently.

[Tascosa Joe]

The is a bill before the Texas Legislature requiring local and state law inforcement to ignore all Federal Firearms laws if they are more strengent than Texas Laws.

[major]

The is a bill before the Texas Legislature requiring local and state law inforcement to ignore all Federal Firearms laws if they are more strengent than Texas Laws.

Good for them.  I wish NY had gun friendly law makers.  But alas in NY we have the best politicians that money can buy.

[Tascosa Joe]

Kind of back on subject, if the 45 CS has the same case capacity as a 45 ASP which I have heard is what it is, then it does not completely meet my criteria.  I got 28 gr of 2f or 24 gr of 3f in the case with it level full with no room for a bullet. Therefore I am semi stuck with .45 S&W (Schofield) cases and the rifle will hold almost 14. 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Holler
I am kind of surprised that you are measuring you black powder in cc's (by volume).  I have always thought it was measured in grains (by weight).  Why are you using cc's instead of grains?  I am not saying that it is wrong, just wondering.

Howdy

Well for one thing, there is no such thing as grains by volume. Grains is a unit of weight. Period. Yes there are those who like to call out what they think is 'grains/volume' but it really does not exist.

The other reason to use CCs to measure powder is because not all Black Powder weighs the same. I typically put 2.2CC of FFg into my 45 Colt and 44-40 cartridges. When I have weighed it out for comparison I have found that 2.2CC of the old Elephant FFg weighed about 37 grains, 2.2CC of Goex FFg weighed about 33 grains, and 2.2CC of Schuetzen FFg weighed about 34 grains. So clearly, if one went by weight, there would be a large variation in the amount of powder in the charge and the amount of compression. Using a recognized volume unit like CC takes all the guesswork out of it and I get consistent compression no matter what brand of powder I use. The fact that Lee dippers are calibrated in CCs makes this a very convenient unit to work with.