Metal lined holsters

[Red Cent]

I woud like to get some idea of what and the thickness of the metal you use in your holsters.  I plan to use some metal in some holsters in the "over the belt" area and around the cylinder area.
Some shooters like this:

[Massive]

Use the search, there are quite a few useful threads

[Slowhand Bob]

I think the last sheet I purchased was perhaps 24ga stainless, not for sure but likely.  I particularly like the shape in your picture but there seems to be at least a couple of other variations that are more or less popular.  RRR  prefers a wide open belt loop but I think those are ugly and require the huge wings for stability but who am I to challenge the big guy!  I think that it is the old Short Tom model that uses something more in between the two.  With their open loops they use hidden leather spacers and flaps to position the belt inside the tunnel.

[Red Cent]

RRR started out with flat holsters and eventuallu wound up with the Kirkpatrick's. Most of us could draw fast like John Wayne. Practice, practice.
I like the butt to the rear and the above hang. But you now, there is a cowboy in NC that uses a straight hang Mexican two loop made for him by Rick Bachman. But he can beat anyone in NC and has won regional titles. Marshall Harlan Wolf aka Spencer Davis.

Within reason, muscle memory will work.

Thanks Slowhand. Massive I will do some research. Searching is effective but it does not elicit good converstion.

[Bugscuffle]

This is not a suggestion, just a question. Why use metal at all? Why not sandwich in a layer of rawhide? Rawhide can be wet molded to exact shapes and will glue up to the leather better than metal and is probably more than stiff enough to do the trick.

[Massive]

Thanks Slowhand. Massive I will do some research. Searching is effective but it does not elicit good converstion.

I know what you mean, it normally annoys me when a question gets deflected that way.  But in this case it was one of several questions i greedily researched on arrival and there is a lot of good stuff in the files.

[Massive]

This is not a suggestion, just a question. Why use metal at all? Why not sandwich in a layer of rawhide? Rawhide can be wet molded to exact shapes and will glue up to the leather better than metal and is probably more than stiff enough to do the trick.

Good option!  http://www.rodkiblersaddlery.com/Holsters.html

Is there much evidence that was historically used?  I assume not, but I don't know.  They had sheet metal in the day, so they could have done it even if they never did either.

Other side of the whole thing is just curiosity.

For holsters I like metal for retention, which is not the key for CAS, but it can be an issue with other styles.

[Slowhand Bob]

One advantage with metal is the way one can adjust that retention and the metal will retain that fit setting well.  I am also having good luck with the glue bonding the layers together with the metal skeleton real well (so far).  I am not sure at which point during construction I would need to wet shape an internal layer of  rawhide or heat shape a sandwiched layer of Kydex.   

[Massive]

With Kydex, I apply leather to one side, then later heat the kydex with a gun and fold it, then apply an external layer of leather.  But I don't perimeter stitch that.  One could do it by hand.  That is where metal is great, you can fold up after working it flat.  I don't know how they do that with Kydex.

[Red Cent]

Massive, Rod K did these. He uses the strips around the trhoat a lot and it is popular with other shooters. Rod did these.

[Red Cent]

I am not going to hand sew much so saying that I would like to find out the kydex trick. I have made a few kydex holsters and they are relatively easy. I have made them with the kydex belt holders and I have used leather in aacouple of cases.

This is my kydex press. Thr big foam is not normally used.

[Slowhand Bob]

Those look good Red Cent, I am a big fan of Kydex in practical holsters. 

As to the stainless liners I have used, if I had not purchased a large amount for better pricing I would definitely have gone heavier by now.  That metal liner  which is in many of the big name makers designs would seem to be some really heavy stuff.  I currently have three presses for use in cutting or forming but the one I would most recommend is one of the twenty ton hydraulic presses carried by Harbour Freight.  It does not take up hardly any floor space, is relatively cheap, can be cheaply adapted to some useful configurations  and local options save you a bunch of bucks.

There have seen some holster molds for use in a press on Ebay recently and they did confirm a belief I had arrived at.  These were deep dish brass/bronze(?) molds and all listed so far actually have basket weave patterns cut into the metal.  Now I finally know how the big companies manage to do such deep form molding and still maintain deep sharp tooling patterns in the end product, pattern is pressed in with the final fit.  If I see another one listed I will come back and add a link.

[Slowhand Bob]

Link to auction 'die plates'.  For anyone interested, check his ebay site as he seems to have lots of models being listed.   http://www.ebay.com/itm/170976946377?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648

[Red Cent]

There are a number of ways to use the Kydex going through my mind, but none seems to work.

Going slow, say with a flood lamp, how much heat would the outside layer of leather take until it becomes a problem. Kydex under the outer layer would become mallable pretty quickl.

Thanks Slowhand.

[Slowhand Bob]

I think I have the solution.  We will need to hide someone in a locker at the Kirkpatrick plant so they can watch how it is done adter production starts the next morning.  I actually see little advantage of kydex or even rawhide for reinforcing leather that is to be lined anyway.  The minimal stainless steel thickness is just to much an advantage for the thicker materials to evercome.

[Red Cent]

At this point in my "experience, I would think the two layers of lether will more than suffice for the cylinder area and throt. I may Give Kibler a call and talk rawhide.

I think a piece of metal from just above the throat all the way over the belt and down to the end of the flap will work as in the picture. I do not like skirts/backflaps. But then I liked my Chevies shaved and decked. And no door handles.

[Slowhand Bob]

It seems to have been pretty common with the early speed holsters to bring the steal liner down to the leading edge of the cylinder.  Those guns did use something pretty heavy in there also, as there is absolutely no give to them.  I have a couple of the early Hollywood models and it is for sure that these guys were the fathers of speed rigs and even the IPSC rigs that followed borrowed heavily on their pioneering techniques.

[Boothill Bob]

This is how I do it on my Wild Bunch holsters.. Works great.

[Red Cent]

BB, where does it bend? And does the backflap/skirt go all the way down the back of the holster?

[Boothill Bob]

It looks like this when I'm done.. like when I can bend it away from my body and get a full combat grip.