Demonstrating the Cavalry/Twist Draw

[Bottom Dealin Mike]

I was out shooting a pair of 1851 Navy revolvers this week. I like to draw these guns using what some people call the cavalry draw, and others call the twist draw.

I stopped using this draw during CAS matches over 15 years ago because ROs were so twitchy about it. But if done right it is safe. people think you sweep yourself during the draw, but, actually, it would be hard to do that without hitting yourself with the gun barrel.

I put together a short video that demonstrated the draw so you can see what I mean. Here are some stills of the draw as well:

http://i.imgur.com/pDEIC.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/anAs5.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Ayy8D.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xKc8M.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/POJSn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/4S6UY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/r9EwR.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/XyUMP.jpg

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Mike - you're right.  It IS safe.

But there are some pretty confident folks out there in leadership positions who simply KNOW that it's unsafe, and won't listen (or watch a demo) to reason!

Right Bill?

(Full name omitted to protect the guilty)

[john boy]

Calvary - Twist Draw - Explained by PaleWolf Brunelle, SASS RO Committee ...
http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=9715.msg64263#msg64263

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Regarding Steel Horse's comment,

I left a SASS club that I really liked because they had a rule about 'no double butt forward holsters' ... I literally was getting about a minute added on  from using one of Will Ghormley's double butt forward holsters .... I now wear the rig with a pair of Ruger Old Armies and ONLY when reenacting downtown ,,,,, No SASS/NCOWS use at all ...

[Fox Creek Kid]

...But if done right it is safe...

Agreed, however anytime the public is involved everything has to be "dumbed" down because if something can go wrong it will. Your vid is great but many, in their never ending quest for speed, will have their thumb on the hammer before clearing leather. It's the same reason public ranges don't allow drawing modern CCW guns from holsters as inevitably some idiot will shoot themself or another and the range will be sued. I saw this happen in 2011 and the lawsuit still rages. Especially now with guns being front & center in the political arena we must be even more vigilant.

[fourfingersofdeath]

From memory the SASS rules want the gun pointed downrange when it is being drawn, hence the cross draw shuffle and ROs are bound by the rules.

I remember reading where Elmer Keith liked a normal draw right side,but reversed on the weak side as the gun could be drawn with either hand that way.

[john boy]

I remember reading where Elmer Keith liked a normal draw right side,but reversed on the weak side as the gun could be drawn with either hand that way.

Exactly.  Works for me doing the transition - down range - straight down in a Buscadero rig

[Montana Slim]

Like the video.....It illustrates the main points of the draw and raises some others.

BTW, I've been using this type of draw since I started with C&B pistolas since I was 14 or so and been using with my 1860s in CAS/WAS for 15 or so years, too. Back when folks didin't know me, I'd warn the RO of what I was going to do & how (much to their initial dismay)...then give a demonstration at speed & slow to illustrate. Never been denied to use this technique at a shoot.

I will add that I made my own slim-jim holsters. The holsters hang straight down, so that neither pistol can be considered canted as many cross-draw holsters are. I think a shooter planning to twist-draw should not use canted holsters... drawing from a canted holster technically breaks the 170 rule and subject to a DQ.

Just my opinion.

Slim

[John Smith]

From memory the SASS rules want the gun pointed downrange when it is being drawn, hence the cross draw shuffle and ROs are bound by the rules.


Just exactly what SASS rule is the RO bound by that requires a "cross draw shuffle"? 

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Hi,

I want to repeat that i do not believe that SASS has a 'no double butt forward' rule ... again I think it was the clubs on TOP of the SASS rules ...

[Slowhand Bob]

Another example of the Gunfighter draw from a double cavalry rig, if you can stay with the fact that the language is foreign and the draw takes place at the end.  His first draw is a double and he does one or two more with the right hand only.  This is about as fast as I think the cavalry draw  it gets.   

[Capt. JEB Forrest]

Ever since my first RO class back at Mule Camp SASS has taken the position that a shooter has to have the ability to draw and reholster, thus just having a holster that cants back a little, ala The Duke, is not considered to be breaking the 170.

One of the most abused rules is the "dance". It is only required  to not break the 170, as needed. When I use one I generally will start with that hip forward, kind of standing sideways. This way the pistola is already down range.

WaddWatson, the SASS rules for the Gunfighter shooting class prohibit two butt forward pistols.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Capt JEB Forrest,

I stand corrected: as I mentioned, I don't even use the rig for SASS anymore .....

[fourfingersofdeath]

From memory the SASS rules want the gun pointed downrange when it is being drawn, hence the cross draw shuffle and ROs are bound by the rules.


Just exactly what SASS rule is the RO bound by that requires a "cross draw shuffle"? 

If the gun is in a cross draw holster, especially on the side of the hip with a bit of a rearward tilt,it will be pointing outside the 170 degree arc. The shooters with this style of holster have to turn their body to the right (for a right hander) when they draw to keep within the 170Deg arc. Where I shoot,that is referred to as ' the cross draw shuffle.' The expression isn't in the book, that's just what we call it.

I was always under the impression the Cavalry holster was worn in the small of the back on a considerable tilt for comfortable carry when mounted and as such, was kept well out of the way when riding through thick brush, etc.

[Slowhand Bob]

PWB has addressed this within the last couple of days, over on the WIRE, and my take on his description is that the allowance is related to that part of the draw that takes place before the muzzle clears leather.  Where the gun is located along the hip/waist makes a huge difference in the sweep of the muzzle when being drawn. Cross draw holsters worn well forward  can be drawn by most practised shooters without any body movement BUT as the X-D holsters position is shifted more to the hip it becomes harder and harder to perform  within the rules for all but the thinnest most Gumby like individuals.  On the Cavalry Draw, If the' twist of the wrist (back to normal) takes place with the muzzle still inside the mouth of the holster it is all a moot point as the rest simply a standard draw from there and rules should be no different for this.  When I see someone withdraw the pistol from the holster completely AND THEN do this big muzzle arc of rotation out in the wide open world, sweeping their own gut and any spotters or timers on the off side, well, that technique (or lack there of) is the problem.  I would like to see SASS set a correct standard for the Twist Draw and legalize its correct use for all categories and DQ any shooer who does not take the time to learn the safe way to perform the technique. 

[Slowhand Bob]

I tried playing with the double twist draw for a bit last night but fear that my old age and accompanying  lack of dexterity makes this not worth the effort for me.  I could improve the problems encountered a little bit with holster design modifications but do not think it would be worth it in my case.  I would still support the concept of legalising it for competition for those who would desire it. 

[harleydavis]

James Butler done it this-a-way. Good nuff for him, good nuf for me!!!

As far as use of the butt forward holsters in competition, it is a simple enough thing to do the "crossdraw shuffle" as it is called, to get the revolvers from the holster without breaking the 170 degree rule. Frankly, using the reverse plainsmens twist (as it is correctly called) doesnt present any extra safety concerns unless the shooter foolishly places finger into trigger guard. So, to the untrained shootist, practice with this type of carry & draw prior to going to the shoot, please!!! It is difficult to master at first, once a feller gets used to it, comes naturally. Notice in the first photo, the position of the revolvers (in truth, I will push them slightly rearward from the position shown) . In order to get them into battery with the plainsmen's twist, the barrels first must clear the leather and then, they are rotated inward into the forward point position. The pistols do not break the 170 degree plain when done properly however, the rearward cant of the barrels does make most RO's nervous however, and I respect that and the rules of an event.