US Fire Arms Co. Collectability in the future?

[mtone]

USFA stopped using Uberti parts shortly after  moving into the Ledyard St address though they did have some parts to fix some of the older guns. 

[North Bender]

Lets remember, while well made and well fitted, they are after all, high end Uberties.  Lets not get too excited.

Without those Italian parts and raw forgings, the sold-off CNC tooling and separated production staff, I bet that backlog's gonna stretch itself out.

Whoa there podners!  They aint Uberties, they're built to a higher standard than the Colt SAAs of the same era.  That's why there's a board here for the people who recognize the quality.

[Marshal Deadwood]

Whoa there podners!  They aint Uberties, they're built to a higher standard than the Colt SAAs of the same era.  That's why there's a board here for the people who recognize the quality.

They are ,,were,,built better than Colts of ANY era.

For that matter, my Uberti I prefer much more than a third gen Colt,,,cept for the gullible collector value,,,I wouldn't trade my Uberti FOR a Colt

[Pettifogger]

They are ,,were,,built better than Colts of ANY era.

For that matter, my Uberti I prefer much more than a third gen Colt,,,cept for the gullible collector value,,,I wouldn't trade my Uberti FOR a Colt

If you have some Colts you want to trade for Ubertis let me know.

[Capt. John Fitzgerald]

Well, this is going to open up a whole new can of worms...
What St. George is referring to doesn't really fall into the "Uberti parts" category.  He is referring to their raw frame forgings and questioning USFA's source for same.
One thing is certain, USFA did not forge their own frames as they had no facilities to do so.  So, where did they get the forgings that they machined into finished frames?  Some have suspected that they used forgings supplied by Uberti.
But, you may ask, how can that be if USFA's are/were "All American" made?  Simple!  If the majority of the production work is done within the US, then you can legally make a "Made in the USA" claim.  Yes folks, you could import frame forgings from Uberti, do all of the machine work here and then proudly stamp "Made in the USA" on it.  Springfield Armory has been doing this for years and they have always been very up-front about it.  All of Springfield Armory's forgings for 1911 frames and slides come from Imbel in Brazil.  1911's that are machined from Imbel forgings in Brazil are marked Made in Brazil.  1911's machined from Imbel forgings in Geneseo, Ill., are marked Made in the USA.  All perfectly legal.
Now I'm not saying that USFA machined their SAA's from forgings supplied by Uberti,  I'm merely relating what many have long suspected.  If true, it would answer a lot of questions.      

[Coffinmaker]

At this point in time it's all moot.  As far as SA handguns go, USFA is dead. RIP.  Now, did USFA builds a fine gun??  Yes.  Was fit and finish superb??? Yes.  Did they require work to be really competitive??? Yes.  We're they actually high end Ubertis to the point Uberti cylinders, base pins, bushings, trigger guards, grip frames, etc would bolt right up with minor fitting???  Yep.  Should we lament USFA,s passing   He'll yes they built FINE guns and the source of raw lumps doesn't matter one bit.  We're they overpriced??? Yep, just like Colt is overpriced.
I own some.  I wanted to own some more, darn it.

Coffinmaker

[Skeeter Lewis]

Help me out, Coffinmaker. I thought that (though they started out using Uberti parts) for some years past they were made entirely in the US.

[Capt. John Fitzgerald]

Skeeter,
Yes, they started out in 1993 turning out guns that were made up entirely of Uberti parts that were fit and finished here.  Over the next seven or eight years they gradually converted over to "all US made" parts. 
As previously stated, they could have imported all of their frame forgings from Uberti, done the machining here, and legally called them "US made."  Again, I'm not saying that this is what happened, I'm just saying that they could have done this and would have been within their rights to make their "Made in the USA" claim.
CJF

[Major 2]

Capt. 

somewhat longer than 7 or 8 years , about 2004 , but still it was Uberti CNC Technology,
and 2007 the still birthed Remingtons.

I sorta look at it like the Mustang,  Ford makes them ..Roush & Shelby make them GREAT.

[Marshal Deadwood]

They are ,,were,,built better than Colts of ANY era.

For that matter, my Uberti I prefer much more than a third gen Colt,,,cept for the gullible collector value,,,I wouldn't trade my Uberti FOR a Colt

If you have some Colts you want to trade for Ubertis let me know.

Nope, don't have no Colt's,,,never had a desire to put my money in one.

[Coffinmaker]

Skeeter,

USFA wasn't equipped to make the forgings for the frames.  At the beginning, USPFA imported all the parts from Uberti, then did final fit and finish here.  Then our millionaire hobbiest decided to do it all (most all) here.  USFA was born.  Was not equipped to produce the raw forging for the frame so the forging for the frame came from the original supplier.  A ra forging doesn't bare much resemblance to the finished product, so it's source of origin really doesn't matter.  Harley Davidson doesn't cast their own engine cases.  What matters is the finished product.  In the case of USFA, a FINE gun, in many ways superior to Colt.

I've worked on all the manufactures guns for a long time.  I don't have an axe to grind.  I do believe at the price you pay for USFA or Colt, you shouldn't need me to make them user friendly.  Thanks to competition from USFA, Uberti has really upped their game.  Even did away with that stupid flat hand spring.  However, Uberti doesn't use craftspeople for assembly.  Sort of like EMF and Harley Davidson was in the 70s.

So ..... the bottom line.  For whatever reason, USFA quit the SA business.  Our loss.  Where the raw forgings came from is moot.  They were a great product and will be sorely missed.

Coffinmaker

[Gen. Jackson]

One thing is certain, USFA did not forge their own frames as they had no facilities to do so.  So, where did they get the forgings that they machined into finished frames?  Many have suspected that they used forgings supplied by Uberti.  It was shortly after the Beretta/Uberti merge that we started to see a decline in the number of USFA's being produced. [ ... ]

Now I'm not saying that USFA machined their SAA's from forgings supplied by Uberti,  I'm merely relating what many have long suspected.  If true, it would answer a lot of questions.      

Very very interesting.

That could indeed explain alot. But then if that was / is the case, why not have someone like say, Ruger make the forgings ? I don't think it would be directly competitive for Ruger to do that. Besides, each party would be making money.

[Major 2]

Two different frames, Ruger is it's own design not Colts.  
Beside Ruger Casts it frames.


I suspect Baretta had some say in squeezing USFA out.

[Gen. Jackson]

Two different frames, Ruger is it's own design not Colts. 
Beside Ruger Casts it frames.


I suspect Baretta had some say in squeezing USPA out.

True and understood. But Ruger is capable of casting many different types of things. Not just gun frames. They could cast it according to USFA specifications. But you are right. It would not be a forged frame 

[sack peterson]

I suspect Beretta had some say in squeezing USFA out.

This is a sensible observation.

It's getting to be quite a while since Beretta bought Uberti.  I think it was 2004 or earlier.  But it may have taken several years to impose some corporate discipline.  It used to be that almost anyone could be a Uberti distributor.   It's gotten to the point where Cimarron and Taylors have them only sporadically.  I see the Uberti guns most often at places like Gander Mountain, and I have to say that's a bit jarring.

In any case, the principle is, yes, if you are Beretta you don't want your subsidiary being an enabler to a competing sixgun operation.

[Doc Sunrise]

I thought this group of people could put two and two together without jumping off the deep end.

Let us stipulate from those that know, All "US made" truly meant all "US made" after a short time of moving in the new building.  Let us deduce that USFA's actions, and lack thereof, means that the days of Single Actions being made by USFA are done.  There is no need to try to hammer a sensible reason why USFA is fading into the sunset.  Lack of true business savy, not being held to live by a yearly budget with performance targets, an aging and shrinking customer base, ever and ever increasing expenses due to not being able to capture economies of scale because of poor management in cost efficiencies and total miscues and misdirection from the top, all add up to one thing in today's business world, DEATH!  It truly is as simple as that.

On the whole discussion of where people get there raw goods, is silly.  Every manufacturer today is getting something outsourced, they have to to be profitable.  However, to state that USFA guns were just dressed up Ubertis is an insult to the craftspeople that worked at USFA, including the many people that worked outside of USFA, like Turnbull, John Adams and other engravers, the many grip makers, and the other suppliers in the US.

It was a great idea.  It had some punch in the beginning with some great growth and maturity getting established, but it failed on follow through, because it did not have a true business plan.  Many companies fail because they fail at one major business function, marketing.  For example, marketing would have at minimum made the prediction of jumping on board the black gun fun market by introducing Zip was a huge gamble with the looming political environment.  Just as quick as Zip appeared, it can dissappear with the reintroduction of the assault weapons ban.  Bad marketing all the way around along with many poor business decisions will kill a company for sure.  PERIOD! 

[GaryG]

USFA did make it's own parts.  I'm not sure of the exact starting date but about 2001 +/-.    I wasn't there at the time.  Actually, the 4140 steel used in the frames was purchased in 12' lengths and was about 3" x 4".  These were then cut into blocks about 5" long and from there went into the mills.  6 operations later, a frame was born.  The 4140 material for the back strap and trigger guard also came in 12' lengths and was about 4" x 1".   Hammer material, also in 12' lengths was about ½" x 2".    Barrel stock  came in 3' lengths about 1" in diameter and already rifled.  Little parts like front sights, tubes, bolts, hammers, etc were done a combination of the mill and EDM machines. 

[Gen. Jackson]

USFA did make it's own parts.  I'm not sure of the exact starting date but about 2001 +/-.    I wasn't there at the time.  Actually, the 4140 steel used in the frames was purchased in 12' lengths and was about 3" x 4".  These were then cut into blocks about 5" long and from there went into the mills.  6 operations later, a frame was born.  The 4140 material for the back strap and trigger guard also came in 12' lengths and was about 4" x 1".   Hammer material, also in 12' lengths was about ½" x 2".    Barrel stock  came in 3' lengths about 1" in diameter and already rifled.  Little parts like front sights, tubes, bolts, hammers, etc were done a combination of the mill and EDM machines.  

First post ?

Welcome to the board. Sounds like you have some inside info. Intriguing really. Im just gonna spit it out. Do you know anything of the current situation - are you at liberty to say anything? I cannot speak for the people on this board, but I would surmise that whatever info. you can give... we might find it rather eye opening.

Hmmm wait a minute. Are you Gary Granger? If so, good to have you here.

[Marshal Deadwood]

Mr Granger, I always enjoyed talking and doing business with you. Thank's for enlightening this bunch on USFA parts. So much for the
'uninformed' calling them 'uberti's',,,eh ? LOL  Love my USFA.s,,and am sad there will not be more.

[wileycoyote]

welcome garyg!

i have no idea who you are but new members are always welcome here. and that was helpful info to know. thank you for sharing.

i found it interesting that you used the past tense in your opening sentence: "USFA did make it's own parts..."

i can say that a gentleman with your first name and last initial is someone i greatly admire. he made dealing with USFA a real pleasure. his name is Gary Granger.