Winchester May Reintroduce The 1873

[PJ Hardtack]

The August issue of "Shooting Times" has a write up and shooting impression of the new Winchester/Miroku '73. Rebounding hammer, but no tang safety.

My wife and I own Japanese made B-92's in .44 mag and I have the 45-70 '86. Would I buy the new '73? - dambetcha! First time one comes available.

[Cliff Fendley]

I'd buy one too if the lever throw was right but according to the comparison pictures I've seen I don't think it should be approved for NCOWS use. It is not even close to the lever throw of an original 73.

I suppose it would be fine for SASS.

[Grizzly Adams]

The August issue of "Shooting Times" has a write up and shooting impression of the new Winchester/Miroku '73. Rebounding hammer, but no tang safety.

I don't know what new Winchester 1873 that Shooting Times was looking at, but the new Win/Miroku does NOT have a rebounding hammer.  I know, because I have one.  It has a normally functioning half cock as on the original.

As for the lever throw, it is a significant improvement, IMHO.  The rifle is designed as a competition rifle, not a museum piece.  To each his own.

[Mean Bob Mean]

As for the lever throw, it is a significant improvement, IMHO.  The rifle is designed as a competition rifle, not a museum piece.  To each his own.

Yeah, their market is SASS shooters as evidenced by the .357/.38 being the first run.  I mean, if shorter throws is the desired choice for that market, that is what will be built.

[Cliff Fendley]

Do I understand correctly that short strokes are already being designed for it? If it still needs a short stroke for serious SASS competition then they did nothing but limit their sales by shortening the stroke to begin with.

[Grizzly Adams]

Do I understand correctly that short strokes are already being designed for it? If it still needs a short stroke for serious SASS competition then they did nothing but limit their sales by shortening the stroke to begin with.

Cliff, the rifle is competition ready to go out of the box.  No additional work or modification is required if the shooter is happy with the length of stroke the Winchester has.  For 90% of the folks that is plenty.  For those that want more, kits are available to shorten it further.  (There are at least three different short stroke kits with differing specs available.) The Uberti requires the buyer to put additional money into purchasing and having installed a short stroke kit.   Bottom line, the Win is more bang for the buck in terms of a competition tool at point on purchase.

I understand that some folks don't like any variation from the original just in terms of the historical aspect, and that's a valid point.  That said, the Uberti is not a "by the book" replica either.  Lots of changes to the design internally - all for the better, I might add!   If one really wants a historically correct Win 1873, then the best choice to to purchase and enjoy an original.

[Major 2]

I suppose I might interject here....

I have reviewed just one 38/357 Carbine, I have not seen the 44/40 as yet...
I might add Griz your Photo posted earlier ...helped show the differnce strokes between the new Win/Miroku an Orginial and shortstroked Uberti.

Based on a comparison with an OEM Uberti namely my own 44Spcl. &  NIB Win/Miroku 38/357 ( not mine)
I have seen first hand the difference...then compaire those to a SASS short 3RD Gen. Short stroke...

The point is  I like to compair with a Beretta Renagade ( which is NOT approved for NCOWS ) with is factory Short Stroke.

Once I see that compairison & the forth coming 44/40  , I could better Judge the new Win/Miroku for NCOWS approval , perhap a recomendation.

In other words I'm still open to reviewing the Win/Miroku

[Grizzly Adams]

Once I see that compairison & the forth coming 44/40  , I could better Judge the new Win/Miroku for NCOWS approval , perhap a recomendation.

In other words I'm still open to reviewing the Win/Miroku

Hi, Major.

I seriously doubt NCOWS will be able to approve the new Winchester 1873 for their game.  It is definitely a short stroked action, and short strokes are not going to fly - even if factory made.  Maybe someone will come up with a reverse short stroke modification.

That said, I am sure the NCOWS Territorial Congress will see that the rifle receives a fair review.

GA

[Major 2]

Hi, Major.

I seriously doubt NCOWS will be able to approve the new Winchester 1873 for their game.  It is definitely a short stroked action, and short strokes are not going to fly - even if factory made.  Maybe someone will come up with a reverse short stroke modification.

That said, I am sure the NCOWS Territorial Congress will see that the rifle receives a fair review.

GA

Thank you , for your comments ... you can take the "fair review" to the bank

I am the NCOWS National Judge and chair the Authenticity Committee.

[Fox Creek Kid]

I have a subjective opinion on this "new" Winchester and the short stroke debacle. I think, just as with the Constitution, we have to look at original intent. Did Win. originally intend this 2012 model to be a mere short stroke "shortcut" out of the box, or is it merely the byproduct of their manufacturing process and/or related to the new/improved type of safety being employed?    For that, we'd need a competent CAS familiar 'smith such as Pettifogger gander at the guts.

IMO, there is a difference between someone who alters an Uberti into a gamer gun as opposed to someone who is buying this Win. for historical reasons or merely love of the name. I would also doubt that with the veritable ocean of short stroke kits and knowledge regarding the Uberti that hordes of buyers are going to get this new Win. model merely to be a real "operator".

I see the vast majority of the people buying one of these as those who have a true love for history. That's my opinon and with it & $0.50 you can get a cup of coffee. 

[griswold]

Nothing here to stop me from buying one when I can afford one, except on thing.........the stamped in "made in Japan!"..........I guess this can be defarbed.......but on a new rifle?

[PJ Hardtack]

And what do you do about the "Made in Italy" roll marks on your Ubertis, Piettas and Pedersolis .... ?  Just askin; 'cause both the Japanese and Italians were our enemies in a war not too long ago.

If you wanna carry that rationale even further, Americans fought a war with the British on a couple of occasions in the 1700's and 1800's, but that didn't stop either the Confederacy or the Union from buying as many British made Enfields as they could, naval blockades notwithstanding.

[griswold]

Well maybe I misunderstood this, I was under the impression that these new guns were Real  Honest to God Winchesters.....not copies, replicas etc..............just having the Winchester name on the gun would be enough.............if these are Not real newly made Winchesters, just copies like Uberti and friends, then your point is taken..........and place of origin means nothing..........

Most guns I examine have the country of origin under the barrel or frame........not announced loudly on the top or side of the barrel for the world to see.

[Mike]

I would only own one out of interest, Uberti make a good copy and they shoot, No short strock kits on mine and never will be.
The Winchester name is not that important on a gun made out side of the US. Get your Uberti stamped up (oops trade mark)

I would buy a good origanal or even get a poor one and do it up.

[Pettifogger]

Well maybe I misunderstood this, I was under the impression that these new guns were Real  Honest to God Winchesters.....not copies, replicas etc..............just having the Winchester name on the gun would be enough.............if these are Not real newly made Winchesters, just copies like Uberti and friends, then your point is taken..........and place of origin means nothing..........

Most guns I examine have the country of origin under the barrel or frame........not announced loudly on the top or side of the barrel for the world to see.

The isn't an "Honest to God Winchester" to make them anymore.  Winchester ceased to be years ago.  The name is licensed out.  A PLUS for the "Winchester" repros as well as other manufacturers is the "Made in Japan by Miroku" stamp on the barrel.  Means quality built.  A 100% exact copy of an original Winchester 73 would be a product liability nightmare.

[PJ Hardtack]

How more so than the current crop of repro '73's? Or '66's or '86's or '92's?

A 100% exact copy of an original Winchester 73 would be a product liability nightmare.

[griswold]

The isn't an "Honest to God Winchester" to make them anymore.  Winchester ceased to be years ago.  The name is licensed out.  A PLUS for the "Winchester" repros as well as other manufacturers is the "Made in Japan by Miroku" stamp on the barrel.  Means quality built.  A 100% exact copy of an original Winchester 73 would be a product liability nightmare.

I would presume that the ads stating "Winchester reintroduces the 1873 Winchester rifle!" that they are indeed calling this a New honest to God Winchester! Not a repo...........made over seas? Fine, just put the "made in Japan" where it does not show at first glance............

[Pettifogger]

Again, just depends on what you want to call "honest to God?"  Colt has sold guns made in Sweden, England, Germany and Spain (among other places) with the COLT name stamped on them.  Are they honest to God Colts?  Remington has been selling double barrel shotguns made in Russia with REMINGTON stamped on them.  Are they honest to God Remingtons?  It's a world market, things are what they are.

[MJN77]

Nowadays WINCHESTER is just a nostalgic name. The original company is long dead and gone. The new, currently made guns (well made as they are) are no more "American" than a Uberti. The only way to get a genuine 1873 Winchester made in the U.S.A. is to buy a 100+ year old original. I have Uberti and "Miroku-chester" rifles as well as a couple of Winchesters made around the turn of the last century. I enjoy all of them.

[Pettifogger]

A brief history of the recent use of the "Winchester" name  --

Labor costs continued to rise through the 1960s and '70s, and a prolonged and bitter strike in 1979–1980 ultimately convinced Olin that firearms could no longer be produced profitably in New Haven. In December 1980 the New Haven plant was sold to its employees, incorporated as the U.S. Repeating Arms Company, and granted a license to make Winchester arms. Olin retained the Winchester ammunition business. U.S. Repeating Arms itself went bankrupt in 1989. After bankruptcy it was acquired by a French holding company, then sold to Belgian arms maker Herstal Group, which also owns gun makers Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal (FN) and Browning Arms Company.

On January 16, 2006 U.S. Repeating Arms announced it was closing its New Haven plant where Winchester rifles and shotguns had been produced for 140 years. Along with the closing of the plant, production of the Model 94 rifle (the descendant of the original Winchester rifle), Model 70 rifle and Model 1300 shotgun were discontinued.

On August 15, 2006, Olin Corporation, owner of the Winchester trademarks, announced that it had entered into a new license agreement with Browning to make Winchester brand rifles and shotguns, though not at the closed Winchester plant in New Haven. The production of Model 1885 falling block action, Model 1892 and Model 1886 lever action rifles are produced under licensed agreement by Miroku Corp. of Japan and imported back to United States by Browning.

In 2008 Fabrique Nationale announced that it would produce Model 70 rifles at its plant in Columbia, SC. In the summer of 2010 Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal (FN) resumed production of the Winchester model 1894 and the evolution of the Winchester 1300, now called the Winchester SXP.

A number of gun cleaning kits, Chinese folding knives, tools, and other accessories are also now sold under the Winchester trademark.



P.S.  If you ever get a chance visit the Winchester House in San Jose, California.  In addition to the house itself, there is a "Winchester" museum.  No firearms.  After WW1 when the firearms industry was in a severe slump Winchester made every product imaginable.  Razor blades, batteries, flashlights, tools and even roller skates.  These are as collectible as the guns made during the same time period.

http://winchestermysteryhouse.com/index.cfm