Need for speed rig

[Red Cent]

OK, I love the period holsters. I watch Lonesome Dove about every six months. I think the Kurt Russell movie Tombstone is the best. The Johnny Ringo rig is ...........very fitting.

But I would like to see some speed rigs. Cut down in front. 15 degree barrel forward cant. Easy access to the revolver. Exposed trigger guard. Riding low on the hips. Ergonomic for fast draw.

Think The Virginian. No, not Gary Cooper.

[GunClick Rick]

Ya know in the real west hardly anyone wore a gun,but i would like to think that those who did had something going on like we do with Fast Draw competitions. I'd love to see a draw down like that do at the comps.Shooter ready~Kind of like the Quick and the Dead movie but better.Now no one would say shooter ready,but they would know when to draw 

I had a magazine that had a picture of shooters in a long house and they had slats the went up and they shot from inside to targets out side they had dividers between each shooter,but it was mostly rifles.

[Slowhand Bob]

In many ways we are just making various adjustments to those earlyd Alfonso and Ojala speed holsters that reached their peek, using traditional materials and somewhat less so on designs, in the 50s>70s fast draw era.  Most of the rest has been mods to accommodate various specific needs or tastes in style.  I know from talking with you that you prefer a double strong side rig with the weak side hand swap , the ER method. and this translates into a desire to have the trigger guard extending as far past its shelf as possible.  You also do not like any skirt, arguably an appearance preference.  As you get more and more into making holsters you will find that most any combination of features is possible but at some point there will be trade offs. 

Just for fun, if others would like to join in, lets talk the feature of skirts on a fast draw holster.  Is it just an appearance item or does it serve any actual purpose.  We know that most of the fast draw styes did use skirts, even after they started to leave off the loop, the skirt was left in place, why?  I think the skirt allowed a full length platform for securing the holster length to one more stabilizing element for rigidity.  After the loop was eliminated they went to screw attachments and/or lace thongs to secure the front (holster) and back (skirt) together in two or more places.  One function of the metal liner was to add to this need for rigidity, even though the metal was rarely ever extended down into the skirt area.  When you get started actually making these holsters I would love to exchange ideas on some og this stuff concerning the western speed rigs.  It is a somewhat overlooked area now with either traditional or speed rigs for modern gun designs getting most of the play.  The few remaining  makers left, that came in towards the end of that era, do not show up anywhere I know of but much of their work can be seen in the early IPSC designs.

[Red Cent]

I started SASS in 2000-2001. I had always been a cowboy. IPSC heavily influenced my needs/wants in a holster for cowboy. GCR, I never looked at cowboy with the need to be period correct.

I used this old cut up Brigade leather rig to win the Silver Senior World Championship in 2007.



Little brag, a lot of fact. I won the NC State Championship Senior for five years running. I have won Senior or Silver Senior from WV down to Georgia. Mason Dixon Stampede always escaped me. Came in third the one time I shot the florida Statematch. Had dinner at Rachel's. I have won the Senior division at Mulecamp around 2004. Ruff Edge was my nemisis back then. Ol' coot.

I coulld add a lot more but I know what "I" want in a rig and having shot with all the good ones back then, ihave apretty good idea of what they want. The gunfighter nad duelist can get by with most anything.
Next page

[Red Cent]

After so many words, posting site bounces up and down. Really.

SB, the skirt, or the somehwat lack of a skirt is superflous to a fast shooter. From the top of the holster to the top of the belt needs to be very stiff and not necessarily wide. The trend is the "batwing" look to add, I guess, stability. An important part of the holster is behind the belt. Here, you can flare out some to give the belt purchase. You might grimace here, but when I get a rig, i do my draw over and over again to establish the familiar "place" of the holster. A hole is punched through the belt and the skirt to anchor the holster with a Chicago screw. The skirt needs to be strong and stiff. For me, the narrower the better. Weight. And looks. In no way will I have a skirt to be behind the trigger guard. Nothing should interfere or be touched when you draw. You and I know the Gordon W. Davis, Andy Anderson, and othe IPSC rigs of yesteryear had a skirt about 3" across.

I watch some of the shooters having to push the upper shoulder forward and break their wris to the rear toaccomplis a draw. The draw for a traditional type shooter should be of the fast draw movement. I would rather start the draw with my hands touching my hat than hanging at my sides. The hand simply reverts to muscle memory, drops to the gun, grasps the grip and lifts it out. Nothing else needs to move.

The cut down front is not for the draw, necessarily. It enhances the reholstering of the revolver. Very few of us, unless we (I have) have been ingrained in the IPSC draw and holster, will not go straight into the holster.

There was a fellow asking about leather rigs and a picture was hown with the grips about 3-4" inches above the belt. Not ergonomic.

[Red Cent]

The exposed REAR of the trigger guard does heavily assist to get the necessary grip on the weak hand gun and present it properly to the strong hand. Doesn't hurt on the strong side either.

This rig has won me lot of placques, buckles, and statues. It is a hybrid. Originally built for me by Bob Mernickle, I goofed and had the holsters too high. I dropped them buscadero style. Perfect.



And the latest. Rod Kibler from Alto, GA.  One stiff solid rig. Cost a little too.




You guys do very beautiful leatherwork. I will never get as good as some of you. But I want to build them looking fast setting still. I believe the guy acrosss the water is a speed rig maker.
Bouncing aagain.

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

Red Cent, Just began Cowboy Fast Draw this past year.  I am in the learning phase as too what I prefer in a holster design.  In the CFDA we are limited in the amount of drop ( 3".s) and the amount of cut out in the front of the holster as well as a few other foibles.  I have learned that I do not want the skirt extending behind the trigger guard as well.  



This is the first holster I made and used till this week.  If I redo it, I will cut out the skirt behind the trigger.

[Red Cent]

Yep, and that is a problem with a lot of "speed" leather. The middle and third finger will invaribally hit the skirt if you are burning the draw. Doesn't mean the draw is wrong. Its the way you extend your fingers to enclose the grip. Really is important on the weak hand side.

Cowboy fast draw really puts the holster in the box. 'Course it makes a "level playing field". Be aware that you do not have to have ANY retention on the revolver. Wet mold the holster to an old model Ruger and then use the new model for compeition. The rules say that the revolver must fit the holster. I would take advantage of most all the cant allowed. The start position is hand on gun and you are allowed to have thumb on hammer but finger off the trigger. At the light you will naturally want to tilt the gun a little backwards and if the holster is not canted, you will bind the gun and holster. As I discussed the holsters above, you want a somewhat natural stance (hand, arm, shoulder) with hand on weapon naturally when they holler "SET!".  AND..........you gotta learn that "raredback" stance. Looks dumb but it tells the brain at the draw "thats enough" and fire. Standing straight up, you will natuarlly come up much higher with the revolver to break the shot. Seconds. Or nano seconds.

Cool looking holster.

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

Here is a picture that was taken of me shooting at Fallon this October.  I have since changed a few things including my stance.

[Red Cent]

Awesome.

May I ask your average time?

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

Awesome.

May I ask your average time?

Started out in April in the high 0.900's.  At Fallon I was in the mid to low 0.600's but at our monthly shoots I go from the low 0600 to mid 0.550 on a really great day. 

[Red Cent]

Great progress. Is it simply practice or picking up tips plus practice?

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

Great progress. Is it simply practice or picking up tips plus practice?

Well I am going to try to answer this the best I can.

According to a fellow that shoots in the low 3's "Practice for speed and do not worry about hit %, then when you slow down you will be faster than you were before."

According to a fellow that also shoots in the high 3's "Practice to hit the target as fast as possible 3 out of 5 shots."

According to another fellow that shoots in the 3's "Practice every day, shoot the way that comes natural and you consitantly hit the target.  Then shorten the draw slightly and continue to hit.  Over time your speed will improve while maintaining accuracy."

So for me it has gotten down to this " Practice, Practice and then Practice some more.  Try different draws and techniques and basically find what works best for you because no two people will do the same exactly."

The one constant with all the folks that have tried to help me is practice.  I got a laser light and practice in my house, I go to another guys house every Wednesday and practice with 100 rounds and then attend 2 pot shoots per month.  And according to Quick Cal and Omaha Outlaw, I need to practice more.

[Slowhand Bob]

I have never seen or handled the rigs that are put out by Murphys but frequently have described photos of them as looking like they would be blistering fast.  Some of his holsters appear to be on the margins of how much one could cut a holster down and still have any retention, definitely about speed and not practical say to say use.  Look at the photo I link to here of a Murphy double strong side rig.  This appears to be one that I would like BUT would probably not have as much drop as many would like.  The lines of the trigger rest are particularly what I wanted to show off here for Red.  Short of shelving off the frame just ahead of the trigger guard and dishing out the main seam below the trigger guard, this would seem to be as much guard protrusion as one could reasonable hope for.  Also note that a lot of shooters ask for these same features on a cross-draw, WHY???      Photo from SASS WIRE post.    http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r173/sgteli/holster008.jpg

[Boothill Bob]

Here is a speedrig I've made of a pattern that I got from Outrider. Its Steel reenforced and have a 15deg muzzle forward cant. I realy love this model.

[Slowhand Bob]

A good looking rig Bob and looks very much equal to most of the popular competition rigs out there now days BUT dressed better!  I must say that Outrider is a great pard and has come to my rescue more than once!  I am still in the learning stage with steal liners but any time you want to share notes just give a holler.  I had promised to do a small tutorial on a metal skeleton holster a couple of times but have not been able to find one of those 'round-to-its'recently!

[outrider]

Bob,

Nice looking rig.  I never did any metal liners..don't thnik they are necessary if you do the gun to holster fit properly.  On another note...how about using raw hide as a liner...it would have to go in damp so you could mold it and then after sewing it would have to be dampened again for final molding...but that stuff is hard as a rock when dry....just a thought.

Funny this should come up at this time...I am currently doing a set of "speed holsters" for a local shooter who has chosen one of Will Ghormley's patterns (a modified "Frank James" carved pattern).  I must say the pattern looks pretty good on this style holster.


Slowhand...there are alot of good pards in here including yourself....we tend to help each other as best we can.

[Slowhand Bob]

Outrider, you are 95% right on the fact that we can do most of this without resorting to metals and plastics or even rawhide for that matter.  Not sure where it went but Chuck spoke at length some time back about hot water molding leather.  I think the post was just giving examples of what could be done and was being done by armour makers??  At any rate I cure most of these style holsters in hot water and they finish up just as stiff as a metal lined one.  The two exceptions being the pressed in sight tracks and radically shaped drop loop models.  Drop loops are under to much weight and stress to hold up without support, while I like to press sight tracks in dry.  Traditionally these are features that were never considered in traditional leather and would have even been laughed at!  Fast draw, silly boys!

[Boothill Bob]

I made a metal liner just to get the holster out from the body.. Here is a photo.

[Deuce Stevens]

Here the latest Deuce rig by Doc Noper. Steel lined holster body and back skirt allowing for adjustment of retention and "hold out". Also after losing 30 pounds I am able to bring the rig more to the front of my body where I used to where it in my younger years . Doc is a outstanding  shooter (would be top ten in any state or region in the country and top twenty EOT and WR) he really understands what guys are looking for in both function and looks. Since he's one of my best pards I spend a lot fo time doing R/D for him and it's been gun. He' building crossdraws for himself and I this week in fact.