Squib.

[wildman1]

Loaded up 6 different loads for my 73 this mornin. Each cartridge was individually loaded with a measured charge. The crimps were all the same. Each different load consisted of 5 rounds. When I got to the final batch of 5 rounds the last one was a squib. That load was Win 231, 5.9gs with a 200 g bullet. It lodged about a foot into the barrel. The other 4 rounds averaged 962 fps. The outside of the case was covered with soot. The other 29 were clean. I am puzzled. Any ideas? WM

[w44wcf]

WM,
Hmmmm....I've burned probably close to 8# of 231 but never had that happen.  I must confess that there were a few times that I had pretty much the same result that you did and upon evaluation found that I neglected to put powder in the case since there was no powder that I could find in the case nor the barrel.

I have had "blooper" loads with H110 and lighter bullets and found unburned powder evidence.

w44wcf

[wildman1]

I was using hard cast .429 RNFP. I've seen a couple of squibs but never that far down the barrel. It was difficult to remove. At least I have my barrel slugged now.  WM

[wildman1]

Just did an intentional squib. Primer and bullet, went 2 1/2" inches into the barrel. Very easy to remove. If I had loaded on a progressive press I would say a partial charge, but each charge was dipped with a powder dipper and weighed on a Lyman scale. Got me puzzled. WM

[Shotgun Franklin]

The only thing I can think of is there might have been something in the case that contaminated the powder. Maybe a bit of lube on the bottom of the bullet? It just sounds like some of the powder went off but not enough to push the bullet all the way out of the barrel? Is there a chance that you exposed the cases to a lot of heat? If lube runs down into the case that could cause a problem with the powder charge. SPG lube can do this if it gets hot and the round is standing with the bullet up.

[Trailrider]

Could have been a bad primer, but one not completely defective. If the priming charge was not complete or perhaps the anvil was missing or loose, it might have had enough oomph to partially light the powder, but not enough to completely fire up the powder. We tend to think of primers being an all or nothing proposition, and they generally are...but, like any mass-produced manufactured item, things can go wrong. At one time, a MIL-SPEC small rifle primer failed to fire at all on a parachute reefing line cutter on the Space Shuttle solid rocket booster pararachute recovery system. The backup cutter fired fine, but the failure-to-fire was found on recovery of the parachute. NASA jumped all over Olin (Winchester ammo maker), demanding this never happen again! Olin replied that they expect one (1) failure to fire in every 20,000 primers, and if NASA didn't like it they could go find and qualify another vendor! So far as I know Olin primers were used through the end of the program...though I wasn't involved after 1989.

In other words, s#i+ happens, and we can never find out the exact cause. I'd keep an eye on that batch of primers. When Winchester switched from lead styphnate to the current type of priming compound there were a number of failure-to-fire instances. This was a few years back and I haven't heard any further problems.

[wildman1]

 Shotgun no lube on the bottom of the bullets. They were loaded one day and shot the next, not exposed to any heat at all. TR I'm thinkin it could have been the Winchester primers. I don't know if a weak primer could cause that or not. I don't think it will happen again as I just got my resizing dies and am now shooting BP. My group size just got cut in half, it seems that particular gun likes BP. Must be related ta me. Thanks fer the replies. Much preciated. WM

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Hi,

I just got an email from my TG about a squib .... I thought I would mention it, leaving out any names ....

"I hope we could all think so fast.

He finished his first pistol, attempted to fire, and had a squib. So, he grounded the pistol with the squib, pulled the first pistol, reloaded it, and finished the stage."

Kudos to quick thinking ... It would not work on a solitary weapon like a rifle or shotgun; but what a great save on a pistol!

[Trailrider]

For what it's worth, the Winchester primers that experienced problems (primarily no-fires) were Winchester Large Pistol. But that has been a number of years ago. Unless you happened to get an old lot. BTW, in .44-40 ALWAYS use Large Pistol primers, NOT Large Rifle! Large Rifle primers can be up to .009" LONGER than large pistol, and the primer pockets on the brass are correspondingly shallower. That could lead to high primers, which could result in magazine explosions in rifles, or dragging cylinders in revolvers.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

For what it's worth, the Winchester primers that experienced problems (primarily no-fires) were Winchester Large Pistol. But that has been a number of years ago. Unless you happened to get an old lot. BTW, in .44-40 ALWAYS use Large Pistol primers, NOT Large Rifle! Large Rifle primers can be up to .009" LONGER than large pistol, and the primer pockets on the brass are correspondingly shallower. That could lead to high primers, which could result in magazine explosions in rifles, or dragging cylinders in revolvers.

Primer? Primer?

If you shoot a Maynard Rifle and '58 Remington, 'primer' would probably not be in your vocabulary ...







http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/civil-war/Maynard-carbine.pdf

[wildman1]

For what it's worth, the Winchester primers that experienced problems (primarily no-fires) were Winchester Large Pistol. But that has been a number of years ago. Unless you happened to get an old lot. BTW, in .44-40 ALWAYS use Large Pistol primers, NOT Large Rifle! Large Rifle primers can be up to .009" LONGER than large pistol, and the primer pockets on the brass are correspondingly shallower. That could lead to high primers, which could result in magazine explosions in rifles, or dragging cylinders in revolvers.

Yup no problem usin the proper primers. WM