Rolling block firing pin

PJ Hardtack · November 20, 2012, 03:29:59 PM

Recently, the tip of the firing pin broke in my wife's Uberti .357 RB rifle.

Parts are on back order until after Xmas, so I'm having a friend make one. In referring to "Single Shot Rifles" by de Haas, I note that the Uberti is a faithful replica of the Remington No. 2 action using no firing pin spring.

In fact, none of the Remington RBs used a spring loaded, retracting firing pin. This puzzles me, as it sets the stage for a broken firing pin tip should the tip embed in a soft primer.

I'm thinking I might ask my friend to try making one utilizing a spring. Anyone got thoughts on this?

Pettifogger · November 20, 2012, 05:31:00 PM

They made millions of RB's. If this was a real problem don't you think they would have fixed it? Remember the block rolls back. It is not a falling block.

PJ Hardtack · November 20, 2012, 07:02:53 PM

Pettifogger

I was looking at it from one perspective; de Haas from another .....

The 'New Whitney Rolling Block' action uses exactly the type of spring loaded firing pin I'm talking about.

Here's what de Haas has to say about the problem:

"Not all of the Remington made rolling blocks actions employed a firing pin retractor, but it appears that all Whitney actions used some method to retract the firing pin.
Many times a firing pin has become stuck or frozen in the breechblock and if it stuck in the forward position with the tip protruding from the breech face, snapping the breech block closed with the tip protruding might well discharge the cartridge.
This, of course, would happen when the breech block would be unlocked, and the case would come flying out of the chamber, and what happens to the shooter's thumb is not hard to imagine."

My .43 Spanish Remington RB does not have such a spring loaded firing pin. Here's what he says about the No. 1 Action:

"Some of the large Remington rolling block actions were made without any means to retract the firing pin. Others were made with a small coil spring around the firing pin to retract it.
The sole purpose of the retractor was to keep the firing pin loose in the breech block so that it would have little chance to rust (freeze) in place. In the black powder era, leakage from around the primer and case would allow corrosive elements to enter the firing pin hole, causing the firing pin to freeze tightly in place. The use of a retractor of some kind greatly reduces the possibility of this happening."

He goes on to say that such a rifle should never be stored with the hammer down for this reason and that the action should be checked after storage to ensure the condition does not exist before loading.

John Taylor · November 21, 2012, 03:36:34 PM

Firing pin is not hard to make with a lathe. I have never seen a Remington roller with a spring on the pin itself except those that have been converted. Some have an arm on the top of the block and some have an arm on the bottom to cam the pin back. I have never had one of mine stick in place but have had a few sent in that were rusted bad enough to hold the firing pin. I can't imagine anyone that shoots regular to allow an action to rust up that bad.

Pettifogger · November 21, 2012, 04:37:22 PM

Quote from: John Taylor on November 21, 2012, 03:36:34 PM
Firing pin is not hard to make with a lathe. I have never seen a Remington roller with a spring on the pin itself except those that have been converted. Some have an arm on the top of the block and some have an arm on the bottom to cam the pin back. I have never had one of mine stick in place but have had a few sent in that were rusted bad enough to hold the firing pin. I can't imagine anyone that shoots regular to allow an action to rust up that bad.

+1. Millions made and used by many different armies. A non-issue with a little simple maintenance. Anyone that allows their firing pin to rust in place isn't going to be helped by adding a spring.

PJ Hardtack · November 21, 2012, 10:05:34 PM

Well, if it's a good enough idea for de Haas to have commented on it, I see no reason not to try it. Seems like a rebounding firing pin has merit on some designs.

Pettifogger · November 21, 2012, 10:34:11 PM

His Single Shot Idea Book is interesting and it never hurts to experiment a little.

PJ Hardtack · November 22, 2012, 11:10:30 AM

I'll discuss it with the guy who's going to do the work and report back, one way or t'other.

It wouldn't necessarily be neglect that could cause a firing pin to 'freeze' in place. We've all had the experience of having oil solidify, causing issues. That's why de Haas warned against storing RBs with the hammer down on the firing pin.

I've learned to store ML rifles muzzle down after I plugged the flash hole in my wife's .36 calibre rifle after carefully cleaning and oiling the bore, then storing it muzzle up.
I notice the accumulation of oil on the face of the breechblocks of my Shiloh '74s and bolt action rifles under the same conditions.

I suppose that technically, you could consider this to be 'neglect', but it serves to illustrate the point.

Mossyrock · November 23, 2012, 10:06:43 AM

I rebuilt a rolling block action a few years ago that had a spring-loaded firing pin. It's the only one I have ever seen. I have no idea as to the origin of the action...and I sold it to fund another project.

PJ Hardtack · November 23, 2012, 10:25:52 AM

Mossyrock

I have already confessed to Pettifogger in a PM that my little Uberti RB has a spring loaded firing pin. I was stripping the action and gave it a push - Voila!

Your picture is great and will probably inspire a few such modifications.

Mossyrock · November 24, 2012, 12:09:36 PM

I have to wonder if it was that was originally, or if the spring was added after the fact. Those two small pieces of spring on the right are what originally came out of the action, and the spring shown on the firing pin is what I used to replace it.

WaddWatsonEllis · November 24, 2012, 12:46:53 PM

Hi,

It would seem that the spring could just be added ... or would the firing pin have to be lathed down to make a 'place' for the firing pin spring?

TTFN,

PJ Hardtack · November 24, 2012, 01:37:29 PM

The very good drawings in de Haas book show that the pin on a Remington # 2 action would have to be turned down to accommodate the spring shown in the pic by Mossyrock. However, it looks as though there would be sufficient room to accept the smaller springs.

On all the other actions that utilize such rebounding firing pins (and there are several), they have a reduced diameter on the body of the pin to accept a spring.

WaddWatsonEllis · November 24, 2012, 01:45:00 PM

PJ Hardtack,

It sounds like time to buy an extra firing pin and spring .... and have the firing pin turned down ...

TTFN,

PJ Hardtack · November 27, 2012, 04:12:50 PM

Got my wife's .357 RB back today with a new firing pin made from drill rod. The 'smith says if it ever breaks, he'll replace it, but he hasn't had one break yet.
He feels Uberti guns had the softest firing pins as he's most often working on them. Last one was on a '71 .38 Spl.

Update:

Shot the .357 RB today at 25-50-100 yards. Functioned fine with the new pin. Great fun ringing the 12" x 18" 100 yd gong off hand.
I think I need to up the powder charge a little as the cases were coming out smudged.