Help! I need info from headgear experts

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Greetings!

In my never-ending quest for Cavalry authenticity, I have some questions. 

1st:  The Kepi (type) of hat lasted into the Indian Wars era, correct?  If I'm correct, during the (un) Civil War, the branch insignia was on the wide, round top of the hat with the regimental number and troop designation. (Reg # over the crossed sabres, Trp letter under them)  After the war, this was changed to the front.  Was this badge smaller than the one worn on top and did the Reg # and Trp letter still appear with the branch insignia?  (in my case, crossed sabers for Cavalry)

2nd:  When were enlisted men authorized to wear the "cowboy" type hat?  Along with that, was the placement of the branch insignia, Reg #, and Troop letter still A:  the same type of placement in front and B:  required at all.  Also, the numbers I have are 1/2" tall while the Troop letters are 3/4 to 1" tall.  Is this right, or should they both be the same size?

I did go to the GAF website and looked thru the uniform regs there, but I got a bit corn-fused (something that happens to me all too easily! ) and somehow missed these pertinant details.

Thanks in advance and if you know any sutlers who might have the kee-rekt stuff (if I don't have it already) please let me know.

Happy Trails!

[Malachi Thorne]

Good Evening, Steel Horse Bailey;

In answer to question #1:

The US Army Uniform Regulations of 1861, Paragraph 49 state:

"For fatigue purposes, forage caps, of pattern in the Quartermaster General's Office: Dark blue cloth, with a welt of the same around the crown, and yellow metal letterns in front to designate companies."

This may have worked on parade, and for inspections, but wartime photographs seem to indicate that the bright brass over the forehead was removed fairly quickly on the battlefield.

From the US Army Uniform Regulations of 1872:

"For all Enlisted Men: Of plain blue cloth, same pattern as for officers, with badge of corps or letter of company of yellow metal worn in front as for officers."

...nothing to indicate if both were worn at the same time, but this was likely left up to the post commander.

From the same regulations:

Fatigue hats:

"For Officers and Enlisted Men: Of black felt, according to pattern, to be worn only on fatigue duty and on marches or campaigns."

...which answers your second question: Cowboy-type hats were first authorized in the regulations of 1872.

You might want to pick up a copy of John P. Langellier's Army Blue: The Uniform of Uncle Sam's Regulars, 1848-1873; this volume, and its companion (More Army Blue, by the same author) is chockablock full of period photos, and photos of existing relics, as well as copies of the various uniform regulations.

I have the honor to remain,

Your Obedient Servant,

Bvt. Capt. Malachi Thorne

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Thanks, Captain!

And you're fast, too!

I noticed in another post with a link to a sutler's site that the Reg. #s only came in 1/2", but the letters were available in several sizes, so I guess mine could be used.

Thanks again!

[US Scout]

A small caveat on Capt Thorne's excellent response.

The so-called "Hardee" or "Jefferson" hat was authorized in 1855.  This is the black broad-brim hat that was folded up on one side (on the left for foot troops, on the right for mounted troops and officers).  This hat, while unpopular with many, was worn up through the CW, frequently with the insignia removed and the brim folded down.

It was the predecessor to the "cowboy-style" fatigue hat.

In addition, since the issue hats and caps were unsuited to hard campaigning, many soldiers spent their own funds on a broadbrim hat from the sutler to ward off the rain and sun.  You'll find this mentioned frequently in contemporary accounts.  I've seen it mentioned in writings from the Mexican War and up through the end of the 19th century.

US Scout
Bvt Col of Marines

[Angus McKechnie]

Good information, I'm just going to throw in my pet peeve in regard to campaign (i.e. slouch) hats- lose the hat brass, hat cords and all the other garbage- they should be plain and unadorned. They were meant for campaigning- it's only towards the Spanish American War that you begin to see hat brass and the like, and mostly on militia unit headgear, not regulars.

It seems that people just can't leave a plain hat alone but feel the need to add all sorts of stuff that, for the most part, is not period correct or what was commonly found. I've looked through many pictures from the 1870s-80s and with only one exception, they were all plain. Also, if you do anytime from 1865 through 1877, your campaign hat would be a civilian pattern hat with black being the predominant color. Also, at least during the later 1860s, soldiers often used untrimmed "Hardee" hats.

As for the forage cap, the 1861 pattern is acceptable up until 1872-73 and they could be both trimmed and untrimmed. From 1872 on, the Pattern 1872 Forage Cap was in use. Interestingly enough, during the 1873-75 time frame, it appears that only the company letter was used (although there not a lot of uniformity here). As a note, the letters and numbers used from 1872 on are different and a lot smaller (I'll have to double check when I get home from work  ) from their Civil War era cousins.

Two good sources for hats is Dirty Billy for campaign hats and Greg Starbuck for the 1872 Forage Cap. You'll have to scrounge ebay or other flea market/gunshow sources for the brass letters/numbers and insignia. I believe the cavalry insignia is reproduced but not the proper letters and numbers (you might also try Coon Creek for originals).

Naturally, these are some general comments and it would be a good idea to check both the official regulations and period pictures. One excellent source is John Langellier's magnum opus on Army headgear entitled "Hats Off". There are some other good references but once again, I'm away from my library. Good luck!

Angus McKechnie

[Malachi Thorne]

Good Afternoon, Angus;

Excellent points!

...and how did I miss including Hats Off, when it sits right next to Army Blue and More Army Blue on the bookshelf nearest my home computer?   

I have the honor to remain,

Your Obedient Servant,

Bvt. Capt. Malachi Thorne

[Angus McKechnie]

Langellier does an excellent point and he hits the subject with "both barrels" so, to say. Also, I believe that in Army Blue, he also reproduces copies of the uniform regulations, which is also a great help. I'm really pleased to see that there has been quite a lot of good reference information put out in the past 10 years. I can only hope that McChristian will put out another book extending his excellent reference on US Army infantry uniforms and equipment into the 1890s.

For cavalry stuff, there is an excellent reference by Dusan Farrington (available through Man-At-Arms Magazine) that came out this year- excellent stuff and lots of pictures of originals.

Finally, I've had a couple of opportunities to speak with John Langellier for an extended period of time- quite a treasure trove of information.

Angus McKechnie

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Thanks, fellas!

[1961MJS]

Hi
In looking up the 1895 Forage cap, I found this:
https://repository.si.edu/bitstream/handle/10088/2429/SSHT-0030_Lo_res.pdf?sequence=2

Sorry about the resurrection of a 2005 thread, but it did seem well suited.

I ordered the 1895 from WPG off ebay.

Later

[Trailrider]

I can only hope that McChristian will put out another book extending his excellent reference on US Army infantry uniforms and equipment into the 1890s.
Angus McKechnie

Angus,
It is my sad duty to report that Doug McChristian "Crossed the Divide" several months ago!    This was reported in the "Last Post" section of the Company of Military Historians last bulletin, and IIRC, I saw it elsewhere.  Doug was a true gentleman, and excellent historian.  I was privileged to have met him several times, and most of his books have a place on my library shelf.
RIP, Doug!

Your obedient servant,
Trailrider

[Trailrider]

Langellier does an excellent point and he hits the subject with "both barrels" so, to say. Also, I believe that in Army Blue, he also reproduces copies of the uniform regulations, which is also a great help. I'm really pleased to see that there has been quite a lot of good reference information put out in the past 10 years. I can only hope that McChristian will put out another book extending his excellent reference on US Army infantry uniforms and equipment into the 1890s.

For cavalry stuff, there is an excellent reference by Dusan Farrington (available through Man-At-Arms Magazine) that came out this year- excellent stuff and lots of pictures of originals.

Finally, I've had a couple of opportunities to speak with John Langellier for an extended period of time- quite a treasure trove of information.

Angus McKechnie

[Trailrider]

As an aside, and an excuse to wear whatever cover you like, on the campaign trail, just about anything went! Lt. John Burke wrote in his book "On The Border With Crook", "We looked more like a pack of brigands than a military organization!"  Some of the photos taken of the officers and enlisted men on the Big Horn & Yellowstone Expedition of 1876 certainly bear this out! So, using the excuse that you are on campaign in the field in the 1870-1880's, just about anything goes!