Remember Veteran's Day

Started by Gen Lew Wallace, November 09, 2012, 10:08:00 AM

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Garand

Quote from: PJ Hardtack on November 13, 2012, 01:31:59 PM

I was a "Cold War Warrior" for 12 years and I often felt a fraud being on a Remembrance Day parade with be-medalled vets, many broken in health and some in abject poverty. Now I rarely attend, preferring to honour their sacrifice by living well today. Those that didn't make it home would understand.


I feel bad for you for feeling like a fraud. I don't know what trade you were in, but the 2 trades I was in (Infantry/Ammunition Technician (EOD)) I never felt that I hadn't earned the right to stand there on parade. If you want to grab your helmet, I'm sure I could tell you a number of war stories where I was in danger of loosing my life or being severly injured, etc. This isn't the place for it, maybe sometime over a few beers.

We fought a different type of war, because that is what our country asked of us and those rules of engagement that we were required to follow dictated our actions whether we liked it or not.
SASS # 93688
aka Dapper Dynamite Dick

Sir Charles deMouton-Black

I was a cold warrior as well.  Three plus years at Brownfield Barracks in Deilinghofen.  That was a village of about 500 with the third best hockey team in West Germany.  Of course they were good as they practiced in our rink and were coached by our players. The PPCLI were next door and provided a lot of healthy rivalry.

It was a great time and we concentrated on two things;

1. Being the best artillery regiment in Germany, (And we knew it!) and

2. Having as much fun as possible.

If the fit hit the shan we were ready to go for it!

P.S;  We prided ourselves on being the hardest drinkers around.  Now I know I can't be an alcolholic as I tried my d&#nest ;D ;D
NCOWS #1154, SCORRS, STORM, BROW, 1860 Henry, Dirty Rat 502, CHINOOK COUNTRY
THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Those who are no longer ignorant of History may relive it,
without the Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, "History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

Buffalo Creek Law Dog

I was a Cold War Warrior also.  1960-1987

Served in Air Defence Command during the 60's and early 70's.  Was the Nuclear Security Officer (NSecurO) for 446 Surface to Air Missile (SAM) Squadron at North Bay.   That was after a tour of RCAF Stn Val d'Or, which was an Air to Air Missile Base, both of which were nuclear capable units.  The rest of the time was spent in either Air Command, NDHQ or Training Command.

Loved every minute of it.

PER ARDUA AD ASTRA
SASS 66621
BOLD 678
AFS 43
NFA
ABPA

pony express

Another cold warrior here, 1976-80 fixing trucks at Nellingen Barracks, Germany.

No need to feel like any kind of fraud, PJ, like several others here, you signed up for whatever might come, and as fate would have it,nothing serious came up.

PJ Hardtack

I get the point, guys, but not having fired a shot in anger, it wasn't quite what I wanted or expected.

I served with one of the surviving Hong Kong vets and guys who had been on the beach at Normandy. These guys were in the final days of their service and once you got them talking, it was a humbling experience.

I was Signals Corps, a lineman/cable splicer, but did my basic with 2nd Bn PPCLI. Our platoon was named "Kapyong", the battle honour where they won the US Presidential Unit Citation for holding the line during a Chinese assault. At that time, there were only 10 in the Bn who had been there still serving, honoured at the annual parade with the US Embassy attaché in attendance.

I was in the 4th Signal Squadron attached to Brigade HQ at Soest. I spent four glorious summers in Germany eating bratwurst, drinking the best beer in the world and parachuting with the Rhine Army Parachute Association while the US Army was losing it's honour and soul in Viet Nam. Two of my buddies took their discharge and went into the US forces; one not returning.

We buried several Canucks in the cemetery at Werle, victims of too much of that beer and curvy country roads lined with trees. The only 'war stories' I can tell centre around having the time of my life as a paid tourist and the brawls in the Mess, common to soldiers with no war to fight. Closest we came was the Czech crisis, but the world backed down again, as they did with the Hungarian Revolution.

I would happily have stayed in, but I was repatriated to Valcartier, the Francophone 5th Groupe de Combat, an army within an army. Hearing pro-FLQ speeches in the Mess and knowing my kids were going to have to go to a Francophone school terminated my time. In the 6 months I was there, I never removed my Canadian Army Europe licence plates from my car, driving all the way to BC after discharge. I was damned if I'd have plates on it saying "Je me souviens". But I wasn't bitter .... ;>)

Then we got into the fight with our own government who decided to tell us what guns we could own and could not - all in the interest of the peace, good order and government. That's a fight I'm happy to be engaged in, and a good way of 'Remembering' ....
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne

Bugscuffle


To all of you posting above - You are not frauds, you are veterans. You are just as much a veteran as I or any other of us that endured those "shots fired in anger". Just because you don't have the Purple Heart or the Silver Star it doesn't mean that you were not a soldier or a sailor or a marine. My Father served 24 1/2 years in the U.S. Army and never saw himself in harms way. I served three years and got shot out of the sky three times. That doesn't make me a hero; it makes me really bad at dodging bullets. I recognize and honor my Dad's service as much as I feel pride in my own. I can tell you from experience (awarded the Purple Heart three times) that a soldier should NOT get a medal for getting shot. He should get a medal for NOT getting shot; because once you get shot you have satisfied the enemy's efforts. If they kill you, they have taken you out of the battle. If they wound you, they take you and the person(s) taking care of you out of the battle.
I will no longer respond to the rants of the small minded that want to sling mud rather than discuss in an adult manner.

PJ Hardtack

Thanks, Bugscuffle. Been a while since I agreed with you on anything.

I was the only 'Cold War Warrior' who mentioned feeling like a fraud on a parade with guys who had shot and been shot at. The others see it from another perspective.
My Dad was a cook on HMCS Uganda, a cruiser on loan from the Royal Navy during WW II. During that time, the ship was never engaged in action other than serving as convoy escort. He had nothing but fond memories of his time in the RCNVR (aside from a stint in the brig for impersonating a CPO on shore leave), particularly when she was in dry dock at Charleston, SC for a refit.

He never forgot the appreciation US servicemen got in the USO clubs that welcomed them.

"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne

Gen Lew Wallace

Thanks for serving wildman1.  My Uncle was in Vietnam.  My Dad served during Korea.  Both grandfathers WWII.  Myself Desert Storm, and Iraqi Freedom. 

I recently started family genealogy on ancestry.com and am finding ancestors in WWI, and just found one in the CW; for which I was able to join Sons of Union Veteran's of the Civil War.  Seems military service is a well established tradition in my family. 

I would really like to see more pictures of folks service.  It's really neat to see the places and faces. 

Baghdad 2006
Retired USAF, 20 years defending my beloved nation
NRA Life, SUVCW, GAF#164, AF&AM, AASR

"This is my native state.  I will not leave it to serve the South.  Down the street yonder is the old cemetery, and my father lies there going to dust.  If I fight, I tell you, it shall be for his bones." -Lew Wallace, after the 1860 election

Buffalo Creek Law Dog

Quote from: Garand on November 14, 2012, 09:35:30 AM
I feel bad for you for feeling like a fraud. I don't know what trade you were in, but the 2 trades I was in (Infantry/Ammunition Technician (EOD)) I never felt that I hadn't earned the right to stand there on parade. If you want to grab your helmet, I'm sure I could tell you a number of war stories where I was in danger of loosing my life or being severly injured, etc. This isn't the place for it, maybe sometime over a few beers.

We fought a different type of war, because that is what our country asked of us and those rules of engagement that we were required to follow dictated our actions whether we liked it or not.

A couple of years ago, a fellow who had too much wine and never saw the inside of a recruiting unit, said that my service wasn't worth as much as those who served during hostilities.  I told him that my generation was the first generation since Confederation to serve his/her country, that didn't involve hostilities, with the exception of a few peace keeping skirmishes. So, obviously we did a good job during the cold war not to end up in a nuclear holocaust.  However, at least I served and gave my county a blank cheque for an amount up to and including my life.  Something that I doubt that he would ever do.
SASS 66621
BOLD 678
AFS 43
NFA
ABPA

PJ Hardtack

BCLD

Good point. One group who did see hostilities during our relative era of peace between major wars was the Reservists that served with the PPCLI in the Balkans, kicking a$$ at the battle of the Medak Pocket.
Militia kids and volunteers fresh out of highschool; barely trained, like the Canucks that were sent to Hong Kong. They acquitted themselves well and it took the gov't 9 years to recognize their service. The DND was still publicity shy after the Airborne Reg't/Somalia debacle.

I think my rant was sparked by the ongoing neglect of our vets by Veterans Affairs. I get a 10% disability pension for smashing my elbow (I can do chin ups and hand stand push ups on it) and over the years, it has generated a few bucks; indexed to the cost of living; much more than the lump sum payments being doled out today for much more serious injuries.

I hate hypocrisy. On one hand we hold these ceremonies and on the other, we shunt the vets aside.
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne

Sir Charles deMouton-Black

O I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
Well I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
     Well it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
     But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
     When the band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
     It's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.

So I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but they 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
     For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
     But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
     When the troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
     It's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms what guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Well, is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
     Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
     But it's the "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
     When the drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
     It's the "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

Well, we aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
We're just single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
     While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
     But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind
     When there's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
     It's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.

Now you talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about them cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
Thatte Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
     But it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
     But he's a "Hero of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
     Well' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
     But' Tommy ain't no bleedin' fool—you bet that Tommy sees!

Rudyard Kipling; from Barack Room Ballads
NCOWS #1154, SCORRS, STORM, BROW, 1860 Henry, Dirty Rat 502, CHINOOK COUNTRY
THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Those who are no longer ignorant of History may relive it,
without the Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, "History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

PJ Hardtack

Yep .... and these as well .... not sure who penned the first. Sounds like Kipling.

"God and the soldier we alike adore
In times of danger, not before.
The danger past, all conflict righted,
God is forgotten, the soldier slighted".

This from Kipling after he lost his son in the Irish Guards in WW I. I may not have it exactly right:

"When they ask you why we died,
It was because our fathers lied."

The movie "My son Jack" is the story of how Kipling obtained a commission in the Guards for his myopic son, only to become disillusioned with the war and embittered after his death. This after all his works glorifying the wars of the Empire when other people's sons were dying.
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne

Camille Eonich

Quote from: Buffalo Creek Law Dog on November 16, 2012, 09:46:46 AM
A couple of years ago, a fellow who had too much wine and never saw the inside of a recruiting unit, said that my service wasn't worth as much as those who served during hostilities.  I told him that my generation was the first generation since Confederation to serve his/her country, that didn't involve hostilities, with the exception of a few peace keeping skirmishes. So, obviously we did a good job during the cold war not to end up in a nuclear holocaust.  However, at least I served and gave my county a blank cheque for an amount up to and including my life.  Something that I doubt that he would ever do.

If that guy didn't get punched out for saying that it wasn't because he didn't deserve.  That's a complete load of bull hockey.
"Extremism is so easy. You've got your position, and that's it. It doesn't take much thought. And when you go far enough to the right you meet the same idiots coming around from the left."
― Clint Eastwood

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