2nd Model Russian

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

A couple of months ago I posted about the rare treat to shoot with a pard who had a couple of Russians. I mentioned that I was disappointed that I did not get a chance to shoot them.

Well, a few weeks ago a friend who knows I like old Smith and Wessons called me up and told me there was a Russian in a local shop. He was pretty sure it was a Russian, it said Russian on it and had the curly thing under the trigger guard. He said it looked pretty good.

I didn't get a chance to stop by the shop for a couple of weeks, but to make a long story short, after some wrangling with the dealer, I wound up buying it.





I bought it on a Saturday and took it down to the basement that night to give it a really good inspection inside and out. The dealer said he had owned it for a long time, but had never shot it. the bore and chambers were crudded up, but I was hoping they would not be too bad. After a little scrubbing with a bronze brush and Murphy's Mix, an almost pristine bore was revealed! A little bit of pitting near the forcing cone, but other than that the bore is bright and shiny with nice strong rifling. The chambers have a little bit of pitting, but not very much. Next I took off the side plate to inspect and clean the action. Almost no gunk or rust at all inside. The hammer still exhibits plenty of case colors inside, even though the colors are all gone from the visible portion of the hammer.





I cleaned the inside liberally with Murphy's Mix to get rid of any old gunk, then lubed everything lightly with Ballistol to prepare it for shooting with Black Powder.

Next day I took it to the range to see how the old girl could shoot. I set up a target pretty close, about 25 feet, I had about a box and a half of my Black Powder 44 Russian loads with about 20 grains of FFg inside topped off with a 200 grain Big Lube Mav-Dutchman bullet lubed with SPG. The first thing I discovered is the trigger pull is really heavy. Probably about ten pounds. Not what I'm used to. So my first group was not so hot. Second group was much better. From a rest, with careful trigger control the old girl did just fine. The group on the left is the one she did from the rest. I was actually holding at 6 O'Clock, and like my New Model Number Three, the Russian shoots high. The target on the right was shot standing duelist style. The stiff trigger opened the group up a fair amount.



I shot up the rest of the ammo I had brought with me, then went home to clean the gun. Cleaning the Russian is not as simple as cleaning my New Model Number Three or my DA 44. In order to get the cylinder out, two screws have to be removed. Cleaning is simple then, but it took me a bunch of tries to get the ejector ratchet back in the gun properly. Gonna have to work on figuring out an easy way to do that.

I spent the rest of the week fooling around with the gun. I noticed that it had a tendency for the cylinder to throw by if I cocked the hammer quickly with two hands. Closer examination showed the cylinder stop was a bit lazy, not rising briskly enough to stop the cylinder reliably. Consulting Dave Chicoine's excellent book about disassembling antique firearms, I removed the trigger guard to see what was going on with the cylinder stop. The spring seemed plenty strong, so I degunked every thing, making sure the stop popped up smartly and put everything back together again.

Yesterday I attended a local match and brought along the Russian. The only holster I have that it fit into is an old Hunter holster with a strap that snaps over the hammer. Works fine in a pinch, but I plan on getting a nice holster made specifically for the gun over the winter. This match allows me to shoot my DA 44, so the Russian and the DA were my pistols yesterday.

I had a ball, but if you want to shoot fast, the Russian is not for you. Those Russians must have had really long thumbs. No way my thumb could reach the hammer spur, curving up like it does, if I held the gun properly with my hand below the big hump (it is called a knuckle) on the frame. I had to regrip in order to reach the hammer, then regrip again to shoot the gun. Not too much of a problem because the trigger is so heavy I did not worry too much about an AD. I even shot one stage cocking the hammer with my left hand, then letting go and shooting it with one hand. I made the mistake a couple of times shooting it without the proper grip, and even with the heavy gun and my light 44 Russian loads, that hump smacked my palm uncomfortably. I completely forgot that the gun shoots high, and I only missed one target in six stages, so shooting high is not a problem at normal SASS distances.

About the hook under the trigger guard. No, it does not help steady the gun if the middle finger rests on it. Much too awkward. I completely ignored the hook, grabbing the gun no differently than I would a modern S&W revolver. Nobody has ever definitively figured out what the hook was for, I have read it helped suspend the gun from a belt, and even that it was designed to protect the hand if parrying a slashing sabre. But it sure does not help grabbing it while shooting.

I went home and cleaned my two old Smiths, happy as a clam. I will not shoot this old girl every match, but I will probably shoot it more often than my New Model Number Three, because it is not quite as shiny.

Here is a photo of yesterday's Main Match Pistols.



P.S. My S&W books say the 2nd Model Russian was produced from 1873 - 1878. The SN on this one is fairly early in the series. I will be lettering it to find out for sure.

[Abilene]

That is an awesome find, especially in that condition!

[Abominable Bill]

Driftwood,
What two screws were required to be removed to clean the revolver?
On my Uberti's, I remove the large head screw on the top strap in front of the rear sight
Open the action, and with the rear sight pivoted upward, pull the cylinder from the gun.
Am I missing something when I clean mine?

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Bill

Your Uberti Russian is a replica of the Third Model Russian. Mine is the Second Model. They are a bit different. The ejector mechanism is different. There is no large knurled screw on the top strap of the 2nd Model. Instead, there is a small, conventional screw. Partially removing this screw allows the L shaped cylinder catch to be removed. But first, the cylinder pin screw has to be removed. If you look at the view of the left side of my Russian, you will see a small screw under the barrel in the ejector housing about an inch and a half in front of the cylinder. This screw retains the ejector mechanism. This screw must be removed in order to remove the cylinder. Once this screw is removed, and the cylinder catch is removed, the entire cylinder/ejector assembly can be slid out of the barrel.

If you look closely you will also see the proportions of the ejector housings are slightly different on the two models. The ejector housing on my 2nd Model is longer than the ejector housing on your replica 3rd Model. The 3rd Model had an improved ejector mechanism and did not need as long a housing.

[Flint]

Abominable Bill,

I took photos to second Driftwood's description.  Mine is a Second Model S&W, reblued by a previous owner.  The grips were gone, but Uberti grips are about a perfect fit....,

The Uberti Russian uses the Uberti Schofield ejector assembly, which is a copy of the much later S&W Models, they have a very short underlug obvious if you compare an original Schofield or Russian to an Uberti, neither of which originals ever had the short throw ejector mechanism Uberti is using.

Reassembling the barrel assembly can be a trial.  I find it easier to assemble the cylinder/ejector assembly to the barrel before attaching the barrel to the frame.  Be careful to set the larger gear tooth into the rearmost end groove of the ejector, if it isn't aligned right it won't seat the extractor into the cylinder.  Be careful not to lose the release button on the bottom of the frame when the hinge assembly is out of the frame.

Driftwood, my serial number is 3468X, not aware of how early or late than number would be.  Flint.

Ejector retaining screw in the center of the photo, remove it:



Top screw (center) needs only be loosened enough to release the hooked plate retaining the cylinder:



View of gun:

[Abominable Bill]

Driftwood/Flint,
Thank you both so much for the information.
Now comparing your photos with my Uberti Russians, I see the differences.
That is quite a difference in the underlug of the barrel assembly.
I have not yet completely disassembled my revolvers.
I have removed the cylinder for cleaning; but no further than that.
Looks like something I would prefer to do as more of a quarterly or annual thing.
Uberti rough thread screws hold the side plate on. I'll need to send them off to the gunsmith to undo those screws.
I had attempted one, it didn't want to give and I stopped before I burred it up.
I use a Brownells screwdriver set; but those Uberti screws are still a bugger.

[wildman1]

AB sometimes a small hammer tapping a BRASS punch will aid greatly in getting screws out of Ubertis whether they are rifles or revolvers. Just get the punch squarely on the screw and give it a couple of taps. WM

[w44wcf]

DJ,
THANK YOU for your most excellent post and Pics on a very historic revolver!

I have lately been intriqued by the early "Gallery" cartridges... namely in .38 Special, .44 Russian and .45 Colt.
Most used a round ball over either smokeless or b.p..

In the .44 Russian B.P. Gallery, the load was 7.0/b.p. with the round ball seated down on the b.p. charge.

The only .44 Revolver I have is a Bull Dog with a 4" barrel in .44 Special.
Original .44 Russian B.P. Gallery replications using 7 grs of KIK 3F in original 44 Russian B.H. cases produced an average of 570 f.p.s.



Interesting history anyway.


w44wcf

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again

Heard from Roy Jinks yesterday. My Russian shipped in February of 1875.

[PJ Hardtack]

Driftwood

Thanks for sharing! She's a heartbreaker fer sure!

[Abominable Bill]

Driftwood

Thanks for sharing! She's a heartbreaker fer sure!

a very well preserved one fer sure

[Driftwood Johnson]

25 feet is around 7 meters......too short of a distance to know if the gun is accurate or not. Air pistols are tested at 10 meters. around 33 feet.

Did you notice I mentioned the trigger is very heavy? Did you notice that with one group the holes were all touching? Did I mention the gun is 137 years old? Have you ever seen how tiny the sights are on an old S&W Top Break? Sheesh! You keep your air gun, I'll keep my old Russian.

[Abominable Bill]

Driftwood,
Who are you quoting? wow... 
Yup... the poster of that statement doesn't sound like that they've ever sighted down an old S&W or reproduction thereof
I have been doing sighting practice with mine since I got them to get used to that design of sights better.

[petrinal]

Driftwood,
Who are you quoting? wow...  
Yup... the poster of that statement doesn't sound like that they've ever sighted down an old S&W or reproduction thereof
I have been doing sighting practice with mine since I got them to get used to that design of sights better.

he is in fact answering to one of my post, that I decided later to delete, so not to offend anyone.

in my opinion, testing a gun at 7,5 meters, tells you  nothing about the accuracy.

well, in fact I shoot from time to time an original SW russian model, from a friend, at 25 meters,  and by the way, not allways with black powder,  something that must be done with care. I´ve shot  model Americans too, these guns are not hard to find here. And there are good ORBEAS clones, of high quality.

I also shoot from time to time an original ADAMS BEAUMONT, in 45 caliber, getting very good groups too at 25 meters. the sights are smaller than a RUSSIAN, whose sights, by the way, are not really small, but quite adequate for very accurate shooting at serious distances.


]




about airguns, I got this group at 10 meters, hand held,  in UTAH, last year....

it is an innaccurate pistol,




testing a revolver at  7,5 meters tells you just nothing about accuracy, doesnt matter if the holes are all touching, as at such a short distance, even a revovler in not very nice condition,  can do that, unless it is seriouly eroded inside.

let me congratulate you for owning such a nicely crafted piece of american history,  ¡n such nice condition..... probably, one of the most beautiful guns ever made.

Happy new Year!

all the best

[Driftwood Johnson]

Thanks for the kind words about my Russian.

I suppose I should clarify why I set my target out only as far as I did. As you can read, I paced it off and it was only out about 25 feet. That is pretty much the standard distance to a CAS pistol target. All I wanted to see was where it was printing at standard CAS pistol target distances, since I will occasionally be bringing it with me to a match. Wasn't really interested in seeing how well it shoots at 25 yards, or any other distance. I was holding at 6 O'Clock on the bullseye, so as with most other Number Three Smiths, my Russian prints a bit high at that distance. And slightly to the left, which could have been me. That's all, was just interested in seeing where it prints at standard Cowboy pistol target distances. I was pleased with how well it grouped and where it printed. That's all.

Maybe another day I will see where it prints at 25 yards.

[petrinal]

let me add that when I say that these guns are not hard to find here..I mean that they are not hard to find...if you are willing to pay extremly high prices, specially  in such nice condition (in fact, yours is the nicest I´ve seen in years).

I´ve seen these revolvers getting extremly good results in bullseye matches, the originals ALLWAYS surpassing in that aspect,  the italian replicas, at least with soft lead and BP, which is the only bullets allowed in historical matches (and the bullet must have no shoulder).

all the best