Well... since ya can't usually find a S&W NM3...

[Abominable Bill]

Ya just kinda got to make them 
I had my new Uberti Russians "Americanized"
I think my gunsmith did a pretty fantastic job.
No they are not exact; but they are closer than what they were.
They are much easier to cock the hammer on now and using methods similar to what Happy Trails did for Driftwood Johnson, he made modifications that will allow me to shoot black powder and subs without getting all gummed up.
I like 'em

[Drydock]

Actualy, you can get them new :

http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/new-model-no-3-frontier-45lc-5-blue-charcoal-blue-white-antique-nickel-finishes-checkered-walnut-grips-model-8654.html

[Pettifogger]

Actualy, you can get them new :

http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/new-model-no-3-frontier-45lc-5-blue-charcoal-blue-white-antique-nickel-finishes-checkered-walnut-grips-model-8654.html

Unfortunately advertising them and actually having them in stock are two different things.  Try buying one.

[Abominable Bill]

yup... I'd been on a waiting list for months on end. I think the gals a Taylors got tired of me asking every 3 months when were they coming in. They had this pair of Russians and suggested I buy them. I liked them as Russians; but like them a whole lot better now that they have been trimmed to the profile of the Beretta Laramie/Taylor Frontier/S&W NM3.
They aren't exact; but they are close, and they are fixed sighted where the Laramie/Taylors are not

[Books OToole]

According to an article in the S & W Collectors journal; One of the famous 19th century target shooters (maybe Ira Payne) had the Russian barrels with the under-lug installed on his New Model Three. (Presumably for the extra weight.)

So, Bill, your configuration is documentable.

I may do one of those myself, as I prefer to shoot the .44 Russian round.

Books

[Abominable Bill]

Books,
Great information! History is great stuff. As I googled for images of S&WNM3's I found a number of variants out there. Some had the Russian triggerguard spur with the lower backstrap and some the raised Russian backstrap and no triggerguard spur.
Teddy Roosevelts has the combat type sights and not the adjustable. Sights like the ones on Roosevelts gun would be a nice addition

[Trailrider]

Another interesting variation on the original NM#3 was the fact that the hammer on the STANDARD model (fixed sights) was a rebounding one, enabling the shooter to load all six chambers without the fear of an AD with the round under the hammer. OTOH, the TARGET MODELS, with the adjustable sights did NOT have the rebounding hammer!

Several thousand of the NM#3 had longer cylinders and were chambered in .44-40 and .38-40, but never to my knowledge in .45 LC.

[maldito gringo]

I'm not familiar with the modifications you mention making them BP compatable. I'd be interested to hear, or see, the particulars.

[Abominable Bill]

Our own forum member Driftwood Johnson posted information about the modifications that he had done with his Schofield.
The problem with the Italian clones is that they extended the length of the cylinder to accomodate longer cartridges like 44-40 and .45LC. In doing so they lost the valuable length of the gas collar. As a result, they handle smokless powders fine but not BP and subs. Driftwood mentioned that his gunsmith, now retired, who did this work. As it happened I was conversing with the same person in the process of buying a Grabber sight for my Uberti 1873 rifle. Happy Trails runs The Smith Shop http://www.thesmithshop.com/ and is the person who did the work for Driftwood. Hap was very generous and helpful in providing me with more information as to the process that Driftwood outlined in this forum.
I took his information and presented it to my gunsmith. Using that as a base, he actually devised a different method to accomplish the same task. If you search for posts by Driftwood, you will find his comments on the gas collar and how Happy Trails modified the cylinder and the frame of the schofield to create a gas collar which would provide shielding to the powder residue.

[Pancho Peacemaker]

These are my Beretta Laramies.  They are amongst my favorite replica revolvers that I've owned.

[Long Knife Rich]

 Abominable Bill, your pistols came out very nice! Looks like your smith deserves a pat on the back.

Another interesting variation on the original NM#3 was the fact that the hammer on the STANDARD model (fixed sights) was a rebounding one, enabling the shooter to load all six chambers without the fear of an AD with the round under the hammer. OTOH, the TARGET MODELS, with the adjustable sights did NOT have the rebounding hammer!

Several thousand of the NM#3 had longer cylinders and were chambered in .44-40 and .38-40, but never to my knowledge in .45 LC.

That's interesting about the standard NM #3 having a rebounding hammer. I never realized that.

[Driftwood Johnson]

"Our own forum member Driftwood Johnson posted information about the modifications that he had done with his Schofield.
The problem with the Italian clones is that they extended the length of the cylinder to accomodate longer cartridges like 44-40 and .45LC. In doing so they lost the valuable length of the gas collar. As a result, they handle smokless powders fine but not BP and subs. Driftwood mentioned that his gunsmith, now retired, who did this work. As it happened I was conversing with the same person in the process of buying a Grabber sight for my Uberti 1873 rifle. Happy Trails runs The Smith Shop http://www.thesmithshop.com/ and is the person who did the work for Driftwood. Hap was very generous and helpful in providing me with more information as to the process that Driftwood outlined in this forum.
I took his information and presented it to my gunsmith. Using that as a base, he actually devised a different method to accomplish the same task. If you search for posts by Driftwood, you will find his comments on the gas collar and how Happy Trails modified the cylinder and the frame of the schofield to create a gas collar which would provide shielding to the powder residue."

Howdy

Not quite correct. I don't own a Schofield, I own a New Model Number Three. Hap has not modified it at all, it works just fine with Black Powder just as it was designed to do when it left the factory in 1882.

I was visiting Hap one day and had my camera with me, so I took some photos to document some of the modifications he has done to various modern replicas of the S&W Top Break revolvers in order to get them to function better with Black Powder. If you go to this thread and scroll on down you will see my explanation about gas collars and Black Powder and the work that Hap has done in the past to modify modern replica Top Breaks. The shiny photos are of my New Model Number Three, just there for reference purposes. The photos show the way S&W used to build the gas collars so it kept fouling away from the cylinder base pin. The other photos are of the modifications Hap has done.

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,40031.0.html

[Driftwood Johnson]

Another interesting variation on the original NM#3 was the fact that the hammer on the STANDARD model (fixed sights) was a rebounding one, enabling the shooter to load all six chambers without the fear of an AD with the round under the hammer. OTOH, the TARGET MODELS, with the adjustable sights did NOT have the rebounding hammer!

Howdy Again

Regarding the rebounding hammer of the New Model Number Three, it is not a very safe design, probably no safer than the so called 'safety cock' notch on a SAA. Much less safe than the later rebounding hammers that S&W designed for the Hand Ejector models (the modern ones with swing out cylinders.

Here are a few photos to illustrate the point.

I have removed the side plate from my New Model Number Three and you can see how the rebounding hammer worked.

In this first photo I am pushing the hammer forward with my thumb to represent the position the hammer would be the instant a round fires. Notice the notches at the bottom of the hammer. The first one, all the way to the left is where the sear will nest when I let go of the hammer and it rotates back a bit under spring force.




In this next photo I have released the hammer and it has rotated back slightly under spring pressure. You can see that the sear has popped into that tiny little notch. This is the normal at rest position of the hammer, with it rotated back slightly, pulling the firing pin away from a live cartridge in the chamber. With the hammer in this position, the sear is wedged in the notch, and the hammer cannot move forward. But look at how tiny the notch is and how thin the sear is. Not much stronger in my opinion than the misnamed 'safety cock' notch. I am sure it would not take much of a blow on the hammer to shatter the sear, allowing the hammer to ride all the way forward.




I have included two more photos so you can see the entire sequence of hammer positions. In this next one the hammer has rotated back a little bit more, releasing the bolt so the cylinder is free to spin. The notch at the top of the hammer has rotated back far enough to clear the barrel latch, allowing the gun to be broken open for loading. The sear has popped into the next notch still keeping the firing pin away from any cartridges. I call this the half cock, or loading position of the hammer.




Finally the hammer has been drawn back all the way to full cock and the gun is ready to fire when the trigger is pulled.




Bottom line, once I saw the actual arrangement of the rebounding hammer in my New Model Number Three, I decided to never carry it fully loaded with six rounds, no different than a Colt or other SAA clone. I just would not trust that tiny notch to hold the hammer back if the gun fell on the hammer spur. Don't forget, even with their modern rebounding hammer design, during WWII a Victory Model S&W fell to the deck of a destroyer. The gun discharged and a sailor was killed. The government told S&W to come up with a fix and they did it in one week, the hammer block that is still inside every S&W to this day.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Several thousand of the NM#3 had longer cylinders and were chambered in .44-40 and .38-40, but never to my knowledge in .45 LC.

Sorry to be so blabby, but I can't figure out how to get the quotes into one edit of my earlier post.

That is correct, the New Model Number Three was never chambered for 45 Colt. And yes, S&W learned from their mistake of not lengthening the cylinder on the Schofield for popular longer revolver cartridges, they did lengthen the cylinder and the frame about 1/8" on some models of the New Model Number Three for 38-40 and 44-40. In fact the New Model Number Three was available in quite a large array of calibers. 32 S&W, 32-44 S&W, .320 S&W Revolving Rifle, 38 S&W, 38 Colt, 38-40, 38-44 S&W, 41 S&W, 44 Rimfire Henry, 44 S&W American, 44-40, 45 S&W Schofield, 450 Revolver, 45 Webley, 455 Mark 1 and 455 Mark II. But no 45 Colt. I don't quite know why, if it was a pride thing with S&W vs Colt they had no problem chambering it for 38 Colt. The great majority of New Model Number Threes were like mine, chambered for 44 Russian. But at some point they were chambered for quite a few other cartridges.

P.S. Don't be confused by the 38-44 S&W mentioned here. It is not the same as the high powered 38-44 cartridges designed for the 38 Heavy Duty and Outdoorsmen models in the 1930s. The earlier 38-44 S&W cartridge was an elongated 38 S&W stretched so that the cartridge case extended the full length of the cylinder, with no chamber throat at all. Because of the lack of a throat this was a very accurate cartridge and was very popular with target shooters of the day.

[Pettifogger]

Driftwood, when Hap was showing you the Schofield mod did he happen to mention how the cylinder base pin is held in the frame?  Is it screwed in or a press fit?

[Abominable Bill]

Driftwood,
My apologies... when I read this thread http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,40031.0.html I thought that you were referring to an Armi San Marco Schofiled that you owned. When I contacted Hap for more info he didn't correct me to the otherwise. Hap did let me know that this is something has done to a few different model revolvers to allow the shooter to deal with the residue of black powder.

[Abominable Bill]

These are my Beretta Laramies.  They are amongst my favorite replica revolvers that I've owned.

Pancho,
I'd give my eye teeth for a pair of those

[Wild_Willie]

Pancho,
I'd give my eye teeth for a pair of those

Keep an eye on GUNBROKER, but I am pretty sure "eye teeth" are not a common agreed upon currency, but, you might get lucky!  

 I picked up each of my LARAMIE's on Gunbroker for around $850, each.  I am lucky though - I have a good dental program and get to keep my teeth!

 I would like a couple sets of them fish-scaled grips that PANCHO is sporting!  



  I did "AMERICANIZE" my Laramies from 'adjustable' sights to fixed sights: http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,42191.msg532150.html#msg532150

 Best of luck!

~Will

[Trailrider]

Driftwood,
Thanks for the detailed report on the rebounding hammer on the NM#3. Does the Laramie have the same insecure design in its rebound?  Does VTI or someone else have the Russian latches? Can the original Laramie latch be replaced once the Russian latch has been modified? My main problem with my Laramie is that it shoot about 8-inches high at 25 yds and there really isn't an easy way to file down the rear sight without getting well down into the base.

[Pancho Peacemaker]

Laramies were another of Beretta's wonderful disasters.  When they introduced them in 2006, they had a retail price around $1100 per revolver.  Surprise: they didn't sell.  They ended production in 2008.  They started showing up at close out prices around $650+.  CDNN had the bulk of them and was still selling them well into 2010.

This exact same scenario has happened with Beretta/Uberti's Bisley, Gold Rush, and the Renegade rifle.  Seems the Italians think sticking the "Beretta" medallion on an Uberti gun will crank the US sales price up 15%.  I'm hoping they've figured out that's not working.