Damascus

[Forty Rod]

I know the technology of laminating various steels goes way back...and I love the look..., but just how common were "Damascus" blades in the period 1776 to 1900?

[St. George]

This topic's been well-covered in the 'back pages' - albeit with a bit of dissent. - but you can wade through it easily enough.

What with today's technology and metallurgy providing increased availability and affordability - more's seen today than ever before in the past.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I don't want to get too academic, but this thread set me onto Mr. Google again.  I learned that what we call "Damascus" steel for blades should properly be called "pattern welded"

Genuine damascus steel is the result of very careful use of CRUCIBLE STEEL production developed almost 2000 years ago.  One version was called "Wootz", usually associated with Southern India.  The other from Central Asia is called by the Russians "Bulat" a version of a Persian term, with variations in different regions. The crucible process  combined with careful forging and heat treating resulted in a metal containing softer and harder particles that combined toughness and edge holding ability.  The crytsaline structure results in the visible pattern

Regardless, both procedures result in a mix of softer tougher iron and harder carbonized steel to take advantages of each material.

http://hofstra.academia.edu/AnnFeuerbach/Papers/372247/Crucible_Damascus_Steel_A_Fascination_for_Almost_2_000_Years

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_steel

http://search.babylon.com/?q=bulat+damascus+blades&s=web&as=1&rlz=0&babsrc=HP_ss

I submit this post not to show how smart I am, but only to demonstrate how little I knew! And to perhaps add to the knowledge base of knife users.  (I'm sure the craftsmen already know this stuff.)

[ChuckBurrows]

Lots of info on both types out there and on what exactly was the original "damascus" steel also a lot of blather and "advertising" hype. Some will claim it was wootz (bulat is but one form of it), others will say it was pattern welded - both methods go back thousands of years.
The patten in wootz is due to the carbides in the matrix where as pattern welded is due to the mix of iron and steel or various steels and steels and in the way it is welded up, twisted, formed, etc. Some Japanese blades are pattern welded but others are of the layered/sandwhich method often called San Mai.

Pattern welded is the most common form of "damascus" known today - a few makers still use the wootz process, but it's not near as common. While both methods have been claimed to have been lost, the fact is neither was.

Some things that makes wootz unique is the crucible method of making, the high carbon content, often 1-1.5%, and the "natural" inclusion of alloys such as vanadium - in areas where wootz was most often made these alloys were often added "accidentally" via the flux (certain grasses for instance were used as flux and they contained the vanadium, etc which had been absorbed from the soil) and other additives. The Huntsman process for making steel - so-called cast steel - is another form of crucible steel first developed in England in 1745 for making springs, and later used for knife and axe blades and by the 1830's for gun barrels. The wootz patten though is not so much a matter of hard an soft per se since it is all steel, but rather the super high carbon content making it a hyper eutectoid steel - the eutectoid point is at .85% carbon and at that point all the carbon will go into solution with the iorn. Above that level of .85% carbon , the carbon particles that don't go into solution will form free carbides, making for bettre edge retention, but can also contribute to brittleness if not properly tempered. Historically pattern welded blades were a mix of high carbon steel and low carbon wrought iron, but most of todays makers use steel with similar carbon contents, but of differing alloy mixes to arrive at a superior blade but still withe a nice pattern. Low layer blades will give a higher contrast (all things being equal) while high layer contents give a much less contrast finished product, especially when highly polished as were most period blades. Also to get the best contrasting pattern the steel is etched in an acid bath such as ferric chloride or vinegar.

Pattern welded "damascus" was (and still is) the most common method used by Euros, Americans, and by East Indians/Pakistanis (where the blade for Wadd's knife originated). While not nearly as common as plain knife/sword steels during the 18th-19th Century, both Perret in his 1787 book, The Art of the Cutler", and a later English book printed in 1813, The Circle of Mechanical Arts, note that it was popular enough for some scofflaws to fake it............

BTW - real wootz due to it's high carbon content can be a REAL pain to forge - it likes to crumble. Pattern welded is generally much easier. The damascus barrels so widely used by high end gunmakers from the late 1700's through the 1940's was generally simple a mix of wrought iron and steel, the patterns depended on how the two were wrapped and twisted together during the forging process.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Lots of info on both types out there and on what exactly was the original "damascus" steel also a lot of blather and "advertising" hype. Some will claim it was wootz (bulat is but one form of it), others will say it was pattern welded - both methods go back thousands of years.
The patten in wootz is due to the carbides in the matrix where as pattern welded is due to the mix of iron and steel or various steels and steels and in the way it is welded up, twisted, formed, etc. Some Japanese blades are pattern welded but others are of the layered/sandwhich method often called San Mai.

Pattern welded is the most common form of "damascus" known today - a few makers still use the wootz process, but it's not near as common. While both methods have been claimed to have been lost, the fact is neither was.

Some things that makes wootz unique is the crucible method of making, the high carbon content, often 1-1.5%, and the "natural" inclusion of alloys such as vanadium - in areas where wootz was most often made these alloys were often added "accidentally" via the flux (certain grasses for instance were used as flux and they contained the vanadium, etc which had been absorbed from the soil) and other additives. The Huntsman process for making steel - so-called cast steel - is another form of crucible steel first developed in England in 1745 for making springs, and later used for knife and axe blades and by the 1830's for gun barrels. The wootz patten though is not so much a matter of hard an soft per se since it is all steel, but rather the super high carbon content making it a hyper eutectoid steel - the eutectoid point is at .85% carbon and at that point all the carbon will go into solution with the iorn. Above that level of .85% carbon , the carbon particles that don't go into solution will form free carbides, making for bettre edge retention, but can also contribute to brittleness if not properly tempered. Historically pattern welded blades were a mix of high carbon steel and low carbon wrought iron, but most of todays makers use steel with similar carbon contents, but of differing alloy mixes to arrive at a superior blade but still withe a nice pattern. Low layer blades will give a higher contrast (all things being equal) while high layer contents give a much less contrast finished product, especially when highly polished as were most period blades. Also to get the best contrasting pattern the steel is etched in an acid bath such as ferric chloride or vinegar.

Pattern welded "damascus" was (and still is) the most common method used by Euros, Americans, and by East Indians/Pakistanis (where the blade for Wadd's knife originated). While not nearly as common as plain knife/sword steels during the 18th-19th Century, both Perret in his 1787 book, The Art of the Cutler", and a later English book printed in 1813, The Circle of Mechanical Arts, note that it was popular enough for some scofflaws to fake it............

BTW - real wootz due to it's high carbon content can be a REAL pain to forge - it likes to crumble. Pattern welded is generally much easier. The damascus barrels so widely used by high end gunmakers from the late 1700's through the 1940's was generally simple a mix of wrought iron and steel, the patterns depended on how the two were wrapped and twisted together during the forging process.

Chuck,

As usual, I stand in awe of your knowledge ... and I wish I had $5.00 for each time I suggested your website.... I would be a very rich man ....