Leather Types and gunmetal/gun wood reactions?

[Mattthehunter]

Hey!

So... Are there specific leather types and horrible gunmetal/gun wood reactions?

I guess the real question is, Do you always line holsters, cartridge sleeves, cheek rests etc..?

Though there are other questions....

If not, what kind of tanned leathers are safe to use?

What are the no-no leathers? (I mean chemically speaking, historically accurate will come a bit later for me).

The reason I'm asking is that I just saw a good price on some "waxes and waterproofed cowhide" and that seems like a great leather to use for a plain rifle scabbard. Do I have to line it?

Obviously I won't be able to tool it, but some studs and conchos could make it nice.

I scanned about 6 pages of this forum looking for subject headings that might match and then just gave up. If this was already covered on page 7, sorry    .

Thanks in advance!

Matt

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

Mat, I will give my answers ... short but brief.  Others will chime in soon with a more scientific view.

Leather ... Use vegetable tanned.  Chemical and Urine tanned leather can have bad affects on metal.

Lining ... Some people line everything, belts, holsters, purses etc.  Some folks do not line anything.  I only line belts and holsters if the ruff side is really bad and can not be slicked down.  The hide decides if I line it or not.  There is not one reason or one way ... just preferences/

[Mattthehunter]

Thanks TwoWalks!

I figured (but hoped it wouldn't) that would be the case. It seemed too good to be true.

How do you prefer to slick down the ruff side?

[Camano Ridge]

As Two walks said, veg tanned leather is the best for gun leather. Bases and acids are corrosive to metal. Veg tanned leather seems to have the most neutral Ph and there for is the least corrosive of leathers. Having said that I do not keep any of my weapons stored long term in leather as leather can collect some moisture that can lead to rust. As for a scabbard you should not need to line it unless you desire. Very few of the scabards I have seen are lined. The only ones I have lined have simply been with two pieces of the same leather glued flesh side to flesh side. This gives a smooth side to the inside and outside of the scabard and is what the customer requested. it also gives a nice stiff scabard. As for how to smooth the fuzzies you will get all kinds of ideas for that. Some people will sand, some shave, many use Gum Traganth. Most of the time I use a glass burnisher and burnish the heck out of it. If it is really fuzzy you may have to use a combination of methods. Buying good quality leather like Herman Oaks or Wickett and Craig will save you alot of time becuase most of your good leather is not fuzzy enough to have to worry about it (most of the time). 

[Mattthehunter]

Thanks kreimans!

So far all of my experience with leatherworking has been with various remnants and Tandy leather pieces. None of which have been very high quality.

I appreciate the quick replies!

[EE Taft]

As said already Veg tanned is best......hands down.

Tandy has some great prices on Veg Tanned shoulders in singles and doubles.......I use to buy side but with a limited amout of storage space at the moment I've been buying the shoulders.

Call your closest Tand store and make friends with someone there.....They will let you know if they have specials on certain things. Let them know you're looking at shoulders and they will find the best deals for you........That's the way they work with me anyway.

The way to get enough length for a belt cut or scabbard is to get the double shoulders.

Good luck!

~EE Taft~

[Mattthehunter]

Thanks EE Taft!

The nearest Tandy is 2.5 hours away, and is in fact the nearest leather goods shop I've been able to find. So everything I've bought has been from mail order.

Your point is well taken though and I'll see what I can do.

I posted a couple of pics from first decent project:
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,33806.700.html

This is about the size of leather I've been working with. It seems as though ill have to get some sides.

Thanks again!

[EE Taft]

Nice looking wrap, Matt!

I use the double shoulders in an 8-9 oz thickness and double layer it together to get my lining. There are all kinds of ways to do it but that works best for me.

I use to go with a 10 or 12 oz and line with 2-3 or 3-4 oz but I fine it easier and better for durability to lines double thickness and go a bit thiner on the leather.

Not sure where you are from but I order from Tandy St. Louis and when need be from Kansas City. Those folks know me and always treat me well. I've gotten on a first name basis with the lot of them and I trust their judgement as they know what I look for.

I do buy from other places sometimes but the bulk of what I get comes from Tandy.

Another place you might want to contact and set up an account is Wickett & Craig.....Good folks! Look them up by their name. they'll take good care of you too!

Happy to help in any way! Keep up the good work!

~EE Taft~

[Mattthehunter]

Thanks EE!

I live in Fort Myers, FL and have to go to Tampa to visit a Tandy.

I'm curious, do you beat or tamp the leather? I read somewhere (in these forums) about that. Doubled 8-9 oz seems quite thick.

Thanks for the encouragement!

Matt

[Cliff Fendley]

Mattthehunter, it depends on the type of holster rig you are making and how you want to use it.

They double the 8-9 oz to make real thick and stiff holsters for the ones who feel like they need the gun to just sit in a bucket. This is done for a smoother and faster draw. This is a modern way of construction. If your making historically accurate holsters then a single layer 8-9 oz is much more correct. In fact many 19th century holsters were more like 7 oz leather.

19th century holsters were for carrying and protecting the firearm and not really designed for fast draw. One made in this manner can comfortably be worn all day. Many competition rigs are heavy and you can drive a truck over them without loosing their shape.

As I said it depends on what you want and how you use a rig. Many one these boards are either NCOWS members or just like to do things in true old west fashion so that may be where you read about it being too thick.

I like to make rigs that are more historically accurate so I almost always use a single layer 8-9 oz. If lined I will use a thin lining like would have been done back then. I normally shoot NCOWS but I would use my period style rigs regardless because I'm not fast enough that the fraction of a second gained would matter anyway.

Do a little looking around and decide what you want but most of all have fun with your project.

Oh yeah, as has been mentioned be sure to use veg tan leather.

[Mattthehunter]

Hey Cliff ~

Thanks for the reply. I guess I'll have to do some serious research on a historical rig and start practicing patterns.

In the mean time though, your reply has got me thinking about the holster I use with my sidearm when hunting. I'll have to promptly get to work on a stiff, double layered holster. Normally I use a synthetic. This must be remedied.  

Your website looks great and I love the work you do.
If you don't mind me asking, when you make cartridge loops, do you use the same technique Freedom described here:
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,9631.50.html
If so, why don't the loops loosen up after a few uses? What am I missing?
(I can repost this question under a new thread title if you think the question deserves repeating elsewhere)

Thanks so much for your help,

Matt

[Cliff Fendley]

I guess the best way to answer is the leather goes as far as you stretch it. If you put 45 cartridges in loops then yes they could get a little looser for 44 caliber cartridges but aren't going to stretch larger than what is in them. The loops would need to be manipulated in some manner to get loose either by putting a larger cartridge. pulling or twisting or some other means that would cause stretching.

Not sure why you would want a heavy double layered holster for hunting. I use single layer 8-9 oz on my personal hunting rigs just like my CAS rigs. Never had a desire or need for anything heavier.

[Mattthehunter]

Hey Cliff,

Your point is well taken however I'm afraid my question wasn't very clear. When I was checking out that tutorial, it seems the loops aren't sewn in. So I was wondering (without being able to my hands on it and look it over) if the loops would eventually get loose from repeated use.

As far as using a soft or hard holster while hunting, I was thinking specially about hog hunting and and speed drawing in a dire situation. It made perfect sense in my head.     and it was very dramatic.

Thanks taking the time to answer these questions.

Matt

[Cliff Fendley]

Woven loops are attached at the end and sometimes in between each loop.

On a full woven loop that is only attached at the ends I guess some could get loose if only certain ones were used and pulled on hard enough to pull leather from the other loops. You then would have some too loose and some too tight.

It's normally not a problem once a belt is broken in and the leather gets creased where it comes through the slots in the belt. It's probably a good idea to make sure you use all the loops at least until the belt has time to break in. Most people use all of them anyway, or at least start the day out with a full belt.

Regarding the holster, design and positioning are more important to a quick smooth draw than the stiffness of the holster.

[Mattthehunter]

Cliff ~

Thanks for taking the time to reply!

I've never practiced speed drawing (obviously) with any of my handguns. The closest might have been some smooth, yet not casual, drawing practice with my hunting side arm. Most because I'm not really interested in putting a hole in myself but also distinct lack of formal training.

Thanks for clarifying the loop question for me.

Much Obliged -

Matt

[Skeeter Lewis]

To smooth down the fuzzies I use gum tragacanth, let it dry, then a coat of Fiebing's Leather Balm atom wax. I smooth both down with a bone burnisher.
When buying leather, pay just as much attention to the flesh  side as the grain.

[Cliff Fendley]

Skeeter, I haven't tried the atom wax, do you use the atom wax on the entire project or just the flesh side?

I use gum trag on flesh and bag kote over everything.

[Skeeter Lewis]

Cliff, I use the atom wax just on the flesh side. I'm not sure if I remember correctly but I may have got the idea from Chuck.
I've never used Bag Kote. Must give it a go...

[Mattthehunter]

I appreciate all of the help and advice.

Does the atomic wax  or gum leave any residue on clothes?

Thanks again guys!

[Skeeter Lewis]

No, no residue.