Soooo, wheres' the 72 44/40's ????

Jake MacReedy · October 14, 2012, 08:12:59 PM

Howdy Abilene! Great hearing from you! I've heard that as well, and it definitely would be something to take into account. I believe I also remember Bronco Birnbaum researching this back when the Open Tops first came available (the old Traditional Effects days!). But I don't remember what conclusion he came to, with regards to a conversion.

Hope to see you soon, pard!

Regards,
Jake

Graveyard Jack · October 15, 2012, 10:53:19 AM

Quote from: Jake MacReedy on October 14, 2012, 03:43:50 PMI've found McDowell's book to be an absolute storehouse of valuable information regarding all the cartridge conversions and open top revolvers.

Thanks! I waited for an affordable copy of his book for a long time. When I first started looking, they were $150-$200. I finally found a copy on Amazon a couple months ago for $70 and ordered it posthaste. I had always heard it was the definitive work on the subject but had no idea just how much technical data would be found inside. He really did a fantastic job putting it all together. Dennis Adler's books have great photos but the amount of information in McDowell's book is staggering!

Coffinmaker · October 15, 2012, 04:48:03 PM

Just to throw some "fun" in the mix, the Uberti Open Top chambered in .45 Schofield will accept 6 44-40 cartridges with no interference at all. Just drop right in. Now, I do have an issue with the Open Top being chambered in .45 or 44-40. The cylinder wall is very thin indeed. The cylinder does pass proof with SAMMI level .45 ammunition and I don't doubt SAMMI level 44-40 would also pass proof. Just. I doubt there is much wiggle room and anyone dumb enough to push the load will be holding gun "parts" in their hand.

I have worked on quite a few original conversions and several reproductions chambered in .44 (original) and .45 (modern reproduction) that spit out the little bit of metal at the bottom of the cylinder notches. Very common and the guns continue to function just fine and safely without that little bit of "bottom."

To DIY your own 44-40 OpenTop, you'll need a .44 Barrel and either a 44 Colt cylinder or .38 cylinder. The star on either will need to be recut and the cylinder rechambered. Your also going to be stuck with .430 bullet diameter to match the barrel.

So, it can be done. Considering the thinness of the cylinder walls, I wouldn't personally recommend it and there may be some difficulty finding someone to do it.

Coffinmaker

Abilene · October 15, 2012, 05:49:22 PM

Quote from: Coffinmaker on October 15, 2012, 04:48:03 PM
...To DIY your own 44-40 OpenTop, you'll need a .44 Barrel and either a 44 Colt cylinder or .38 cylinder. The star on either will need to be recut and the cylinder rechambered. Your also going to be stuck with .430 bullet diameter to match the barrel. ...

Coffinmaker, why would the star need to be re-cut?

Coffinmaker · October 15, 2012, 10:19:45 PM

Abilene,

The star "may" be a bit tight for the 44-40 rim with a .38 cylinder. I didn't spec out the necessary changes to a .38 cylinder, since I wasn't actually going to do the re-chamber. There may actually be enough cut in the .38 star for 44-40 rim clearance but I didn't see any need to spec it out from the center axis of the .38 chamber as I'm not going to actually do the work.

Coffinmaker

Abilene · October 15, 2012, 11:14:05 PM

Okay, I understand what you are saying about the star, although it seems that no shaving of the sides would be necessary if the brass all dropped in to the .45 cylinder okay. Anyway, I'm gonna play the naysayer here and explain why I don't think it can be done. First, with a .38 cylinder, like I told Jake I think the bolt notches on those are deeper than the .44's and '45's. So yeah, it could be done but who would want to knowing the bolt notches are very likely to get blown out, even if they knew it would still be functional. I had heard that some of the early .45 S&W Opentop cylinders had the bolt notches accidently cut to the .38 depth by Uberti and a lot of those blew out. Now, if it turns out that info about the .38 notches being deeper is not correct, then I withdraw my comments

And as for using a .44 Colt cylinder, 44 Colt brass is slightly longer than the straight portion of 44-40 below the neck. So you couldn't re-chamber the cylinder with the necked portion where it needs to be, the hole is already too big at that point. I think Uberti made some early OT's in .44 Russian. I know they were marked that way. If the cylinder was actually chambered for .44 Russian, and you could find one of those, now THAT would work for re-chambering! Otherwise a machinist would have to manufacture a cylinder from scratch (Hey Raven, how much would that cost?

)

disclaimer: I'm not a gunsmith! So if my logic is incorrect, let me know. Because I think a 44-40 OT would be way cool, too. And certainly no more problematic than a 45LC OT.

Coffinmaker · October 16, 2012, 12:13:26 AM

Abilene,

You are correct about the cylinder notches on the .38 cylinder. They are cut some (I've never actually measured how much) deeper than a .45 cylinder. More recent guns from Uberti have also spit the bottom of the notch out but other than looking a little funny, they function just fine.
My first set of Open Tops were chambered .45 Schofield. Then I added .44 and .38 barrel/cylinder sets. Really versatile. My main match guns for about 10 years. Finally had to replace a worn firing pin. Once set up, really reliable guns. When I shoot them as 45s, I shoot a real light gamer load and have had no problems. Knock Wood!

Coffinmaker

Raven · October 16, 2012, 10:23:09 AM

One-Off custom made cylinders ....about $800

Raven

Coffinmaker · October 16, 2012, 11:14:10 PM

And ..... The chamber walls are still going to be ..... too thin.

Coffinmaker

Raven · October 17, 2012, 12:18:33 AM

QuoteAnd ..... The chamber walls are still going to be ..... too thin.

Coffinmaker

I agree!!!!

Raven

Justician · October 23, 2012, 03:03:18 PM

If I wanted to have a spare Opentop for the two original .44 Colt toys that Santa is bringing me for Christmas, would a .45 barrel and a .44 special cylinder reemed out to .44 original work?

Justician

Coffinmaker · October 24, 2012, 08:37:41 PM

No. Original Colt Open Tops and Uberti parts won't mix. Original Open Tops are .44 Henry Flat Rim Fire. Have you found a source for rim fire ammunition?

Coffinmaker

Justician · October 25, 2012, 10:18:18 AM

I'm sorry, I miscommunicated about this.

I will be receiving two Second Generation 1860s converted to the .44 Colt original caliber.

To turn one of my Uberti 71/72 Opentops into a spare for them, could I buy a .45 barrel then have a .44 special cylinder bored out to accomodate the original Colt .44 caliber bullet (which is really a heel base .45)?

Justician